Jeff: Hi. How're you doing?
David: I'm awesome. And you?
Jeff: I'm doing well, very, very well.
David: Great. I am very glad to have you here, I love your country and I love your products also.
Jeff: Thank you. I love France.
David: Yeah? Do you know France?
Jeff: Lots of friends from France and I've just been there a few times, well twice.
David: You have to go, it's a beautiful country.
Jeff: It's fun. French men and women are crazy in a good sense in my experience.
David: Okay. Can you introduce yourself?
Jeff: Sure. So, let's see. I started selling online in 1996, so that was before very many people were. When I started, I was at home taking care of a couple babies while my wife worked and she supported the family. I had been in the corporate world, I didn't do well in the corporate world. I just didn't fit in there, I couldn't figure it out. So when my son was a year old, I left, I quit and then my wife right at about that time she was getting out of graduate school. And she was an engineer, she was working at home with my son, my young son, he was a year old, then my daughter was born. And so I was home with two kids and trying to figure it out.
And then one day my wife…she was supposed to be working, in the middle of the day, she drives up. And I look outside and I see the car drive up. This is weird that she's in the middle of the day. Then she walked in the house and she was just in tears, she was sobbing and she's like, “Jeff, I need you to help support the family in some way. I'm getting up in the dark, I go to work, I come home in the dark. I'm not with my babies, I just need to be with them so I need you to do something.” It was like, “Wow.” That was heart-wrenching to hear that as a husband and a father that you're not supporting the family. And at that point it'd been years since I had made a single penny and I'd walked away from my career. So I was like, “What can I do?”
And that was when I stumbled on this idea of publishing via e-mail. So I had a real interest in the stock market back then, so I started publishing about the stock market. And the first…I put together a newsletter that I would send out twice a month. The first newsletter I sent to 19 people…19 e-mail addresses. And actually that overstates it, one of them was my second e-mail address and one was my wife's e-mail address, but I was like it felt better to say 19 than to say 17. Anyways, I started publishing, it started growing through word of mouth. And after I had a few thousand people subscribing just purely through word of mouth, I didn't even have a website then, I was just sending e-mail. This is 1996, it was hard to build a website back then. And I just thought, “Maybe I can sell something to these people. They're getting my newsletter, they're reading it, they're enjoying it. Maybe they'll buy something from me.” But I had never sold anything in my life ever before.
David: Yeah, you were not a salesman.
Jeff: Not at all, even now you can probably tell I'm not really, you know, a slick salesman. So I did the one…I'm like, “How can I sell, will they even buy from me?” And I was scared to ask them for the order, I was scared to ask them to buy from me. So I started romancing them, I started giving them this great content, more and more and more great content that led up to the sale. And I didn't know it at the time, but I was basically creating this thing we now call the Product Launch Formula, and I was giving them pre-launch content. So, when the day finally came where I actually tried to…I put out an offer and we actually made some sales. My first sale was someone from Switzerland. I didn't have a shopping cart then, I didn't know how to do anything like that, so he sent me a check from Switzerland. But that first launch we did $1,650 in sales.
Jeff: That was huge amount of money for me.
Jeff: And that moment my life changed because I realized if I can do this once, I can do it again and I can do it again.
David: And more.
Jeff: I might even get better at it and that's what happened. So I did…the next launch did 6,000 and 8,000 and about…
David: Were you improving your method every time?
Jeff: Yes. I was learning a lot. Every time…the first time you do something is so much harder than the second. And I improved the process, I improved the actual offer, it just got better. And also I grew a bigger following, so I had more people to sell to. So, about 18 months in I did a $34,000 launch, at that point that was more money than I had ever made in an entire year. So it was like…and I did it in a week, this is amazing. That was the launch that brought Mary, my wife, home. She retired after that and then I was supporting the family, and it was awesome. And then a few years later, actually in 2005, or in 2003 I went to a seminar. At that point I didn't realize that what I was doing was different, that it was an anomaly. But I started sharing about this marketing with some other people and they were like, “Wow, you just sold $106,000 in a week?”
David: How did you sell?
Jeff: “How did you do that?” And so I started sharing with them, helped some of those…these are some of the people that were known as gurus then and now. And eventually they convinced me to start teaching how to do these launches and in 2005, I started…you know I created the Product Launch Formula, started teaching. Now I've had over 10,000 students go through the program, I've sold personally $20 million of that product.
Jeff: But more amazing, more impressive is… and thank you, but my students and clients have done over $500 million in product launches. And it all started with $1,650 launch when I was at home taking care of a couple babies.
David: And how did you organize your ideas because you made something by yourself and sometimes it's not easy to extract yourself and help others to do the same?
Jeff: Yeah that's an amazing question. So I have this process I call the Seed Launch and this is a launch that you can do if you don't have a list or you don't have a product. And basically what you do is you put together an offer, a basic offer for people to buy this product and the product is going to be a series of teleseminars or webinars. So say you had a process you wanted to teach and you make the offer, you say…you go through a little launch process or a little launch sequence and the offer is, “I'm going to coach you on this.” Maybe it's learning how to play guitar, “I'm going to teach you how to learn to play guitar and it's going to be a series of five webinars.” And then what you do is after you get a certain number of people to buy, the best number is…if you can have at least 30 people buy your product, then what you do is before the first webinar, you would send them to a survey and the survey says, “Okay…”
David: What do you need?
Jeff: Yeah. “Our first class…our first webinar is going to be how to strum the guitar. What is your number one most burning question about how to strum the guitar?” So then you get all that feedback, you just go through it and you take the top 10, 12, 15 questions, you organize them in a logical fashion, and then you just answer the questions. And the beautiful thing about this…and then you repeat it after that first teleseminar or webinar, you would send a survey out to the people in the program and you say, “Do you have any additional questions about how to strum a guitar?”
Jeff: And so, that's the first question. The second question is, “On our next call I'm going to teach you how to play the E-chord. And do you…what's your most burning question about playing the E-chord?” And you do that for each call and you end up with a…and then you record everything of course.
Jeff: And then you're going to transcribe. But what you've done is you've created a product that's perfectly tuned to what your market needs and what your market wants.
David: Okay, so you have a lot of questions, the question they ask and that's what you think they want?
David: And do you think it's important for your first product to build a kind of system or process like…I believe that David Delan gets things done, has great success because he believes it will build a method, a system. And how can we use one of those questions to build a system?
Jeff: Well, you know. it's been my experience in my learning, in learning to be a teacher and learning to be a leader but also in helping so many thousands of people do it, is that none of us are born teachers. Especially like if you're a great guitar player, you don't know how to teach, right? You know how to play the guitar. So you have to learn how to teach, you have to learn how to build those systems. So some of us are just naturally gifted that we can just create those frameworks ourselves. But my experience with most people it's more of a iterative process, where…you know I teach this the first time and it's not going to be great, but I answer all those questions. Now, I've got these recordings but I can step away and I can look at the big picture, “What could I do better, what could I do differently, how can I turn this into a system, how can I make this just a question and answer?” And then you actually when you have people take your material and take it out into the world then bring it back to you…like one of the things I'm big about is staying in contact with my Products Launch Formula owners and they often report back to me what they've done. So, you know, there was a time before I released Product Launch Formula where I might know 10% more than the other people in my market about launches. But now that I've had 10,000 people go through the process and so many of them come back to me and report back with their findings and report back…or just come back with questions, it's made me so much better because I've got those students, and they're…even if we're genius level, none of us is genius as 100 of our students are, you know? So they're the ones that pull the system…based on my experience, they pull it out of me. You just have to make sure that in your teaching you're very accepting of them and of their questions, you're welcoming of their questions, you're looking for their questions, you're looking for their findings. And that's how it's worked for me and frankly that's how I teach people to do it.
David: Yeah you just gave a lot of skills just to send out what you say, it's very interesting because you don't wait to have the perfect system to take actions, you take action now and you learn from your action not only with yourself but also in asking people to give you feedback, right?
David: And you take action, improve yourself, take action improve yourself and you build your system. That's right?
Jeff: Absolutely. You know there's a quote…and I'm not going to get it perfect but it was from General George Espen who freed France. He was a leader of the U.S. Army that just went right through in World War II. And he had a quote that…it was something along the lines of, “An imperfect plan violently executed today is way better than a perfect plan executed two weeks from now.” So yeah. Especially like in our kind of businesses, there's so many places where people can say, “I don't know exactly how to do that, I'm going to figure that out, I'm going to get that perfect before I do something.” You've got to avoid that. And a lot of…I don't know about you, I am a perfectionist, I have that tendency. And a lot of us in this business are like that and it holds you back. I think about the impact that I make out in the world, the people I help and I can't help them if my products sitting on the shelf not released.
David: Yeah. So if you see some people, you see that it's better to add value in this form in comparison to add maybe value in the future or perfectly.
Jeff: Yeah. And perfect never happens.
David: Yeah. Thank you. I'd love also to know, you have a lot of clients, customers, what are the common factors of your best clients?
Jeff: Wow, that's a good question. I haven't…I'm not sure if I've been asked that one. I think the best…I think one of the common things is they err on the side of action versus perfection. And it's interesting we just talked about this. They are instead of ready, fire, aim, they're ready, aim, fire. Did I say that right? No, instead of ready, aim, fire, they're ready, fire, aim. There we go. Can we edit that one in? We might have to…yeah. So yeah. Instead of ready, fire…and sometimes I'm ready, fire, fire, fire…no. I'm ready, aim, aim, aim, aim and then fire, they're just ready…they are always going to act, they're just going to take that action.
David: So, they learn, they act, right?
Jeff: Yeah. Or they learn 50% and they act. And all my best ones are like that. Susan Garran, she bought my product, she didn't tell her husband about buying it, she wanted to make enough money to pay before the credit card bill came in.
David: I love that.
Jeff: Yeah, and she did. She did $27,000 before the credit card bill came in in a launch. And it's like she didn't know…she had no tech skills, she just did it. And Will Hamilton the same thing, he borrowed money from his dad so he could pay it back real quick and he just boomed in a launch. You know before…when he was through 10% of my program, he's just like, “Okay, I saw what Jeff did, I'm doing it and I'll figure…” And was it the best launch? No, his launches have all gotten way better. His last launch did 10 times what that first one did, but the first one was really good. And so again and again, it's that bias towards action.
David: So, he's the first common factor, do you see other common factors?
Jeff: Yeah, so, you know, what my methodology is all about is providing value, providing value before you ask for the sale. So you're just building a relationship, you're giving great value, value, value. And the people that really take that to heart and really provide true value out into the world before they ask for the sale, that's a huge one. I have this big, long story I'm not gonna share because it's long, but I call it the “abundance juice.” They have this abundance mentality where they're just gonna give…and yeah, that's gonna lead into a sale, but they're gonna give first and then it's gonna come back to them. So there's a real bias towards that abundance juice.
David: Okay, so give and a true gift. Okay? Do you see a third point? If you find.
Jeff: Okay, let me think.
David: I challenge you.
Jeff: Yeah, yeah, okay. I think…this is one to the people that have achieved the highest levels.
David: Yeah. I love that.
Jeff: The more successful you become in probably in anything but certainly in business, the more important opportunity cost becomes. In fact, once you achieve some level of success, it's the most important thing there is in business. So by opportunity costs what I mean is anytime you work on a project, take something on, come out with a product, do the launch, whatever, there's a cost in that, there's other things you can't be doing.
David: I love that.
Jeff: So, it's like fundamental business principle…
David: Can you explain more because I think it's a very important thing?
Jeff: Well here. I'll give you a metaphor. This is my friend Dean Rosio gave me this. He said, “I think about myself sitting in my office and I got this great library, I've bookshelves behind me of all these great books I have. And someone walks into my office and they say, ‘I have the greatest book ever, you've got to read this book. Here you go, Dean.'” And he would…when he looks at it he's like, “If I take this book, I have to take one of those other books off my bookshelf and throw it away.”
Jeff: And it's like that's what…doing this interview. For me…
David: It's a cost.
Jeff: It's a cost and it's like there's other things I could be doing. So, in your business, you have…as you have more success, the opportunity cost increases. Because for me, like $1,650 was great, that changed my life, that was the most important launch I've ever done. But now I've done 12, 13, 14 launches that have done at least $1 million or more.
David: Yeah, so your time cost one million.
Jeff: Your time becomes more valuable.
Jeff: So, if there's a great project where I, “Boy, this'd be fun to create this product, you know, I could easily sell, I would love doing this product and it would make $50,000 for me.” I can't even think about that. I have to think about the projects that are gonna make $1 million. And of course it's not just money, it's not just…
David: Yeah. So how do you choose…how do you choose…
Jeff: Well, that's a tough question. So for everyone it's different. I mean I have certain things that I look at, I'm like if I look at first I'm at the point now in my business where I have to enjoy it, so is this project going to be fun, am I going to enjoy it?
David: Okay, so you have to know your value before?
Jeff: Yeah, that's one. Am I going to learn anything? I have a huge value around learning, so if I do this, am I going to learn anything? That's a big one. Then another one is money. Okay, am I going to…it's a high likelihood I'm going to make the kind of money I need to make? Because I've got a team now, I've got costs. And then the final one, is there a strategic component to it? In other words, is it leveraged or potentially leveraged in the long run? So I mean is it okay if we be like completely bluntly like…so I'm doing an interview with you, okay…
David: It's amazing…if you're okay, how did you…a true example, how did you choose to say yes?
Jeff: So let's look at this, you're not paying me a penny, I'm not making any money, okay, so it fails on that one. Is it gonna be fun? I didn't know one way or another. You know, I heard good things about you from people that I think very highly of, okay? So, who knows on fun, it's a lot. Am I going to learn anything? I've done a lot of interviews, who knows. Is there a strategic component to it? Possibly. You're clearly creating some real leverage in your life, you're getting exposure for people. I have a lot of clients and friends, I've a lot of very high-end clients and friends and I know you're getting global…obviously this is…
David: Yeah [inaudible 00:20:21].
Jeff: But you certainly have leverage in France. So it's like strategically, okay. None of those factors do you know for sure, you know?
Jeff: But that's how I look at them. And everyone might have different factors and for some people some factors might be more important than the others. When I started out, when I did that first launch, I didn't care about fun, I just wanted to make some money and try to support the family, I was desperate, right?
David: Yeah, I understand that.
Jeff: So, it evolves. So everyone is at a different place and they might measure those different. And there might be people that have other things on there that aren't in my four.
David: And let's imagine that Sebastian…for example said to me, ” You know Jeff loves to learn.” How can I do before to see you to say that you will learn something, how can I do?
Jeff: So I'm not sure I understand that. How can you…
David: Let's imagine that before to ask you for an interview…
Jeff: So right, when you were trying to convince me for the interview…
David: I knew that it's important for you to learn.
Jeff: So you researched and you went and talked to Sebastian, who I know Sebastian very, very well. He has been in my program, my highest mastermind for four years. And so you went to talk to Sebastian and said, “Okay, I'm going to try to wrangle Jeff into an interview, it's not going to be easy, he doesn't return my e-mails, I'm trying everything I…” So what's the leverage point? And Sebastian said “Oh he loves to learn.” So, it's very smart, I mean you've obviously accomplished a lot that's the way you have to think if you're going to accomplish stuff. It's like, “Okay, what's the…I think the lever, what's the lever I can use?” So, Sebastian said learning so then you're thinking, “Okay, so he loves learning, how can I make him think he's going to learn something?” Is that the question?
David: Yeah, yeah.
Jeff: I don't know. You know, I mean, it's like…yeah, I don't know. It's like, “Why am I here?” It's like…
David: For example you learned something about the likes but how can I know that you don't know something?
Jeff: Right, right. I think when I look at like how you pursued me and was it Al Lemand is that your…working with you, he was trying to convince me. Like for one I needed it to be simple and easy and I live out in the mountains in Colorado and I don't like to travel for business, I'm not about to fly some place to go have an interview.
David: Sebastian told me that.
Jeff: He told you. He's right there, there's no way I'm traveling to…and so then it's like…but then when I learned you were going to be here, then I looked, “Okay, what is my true cost here?”
David: Yeah. It's lower.
Jeff: Yeah, it's much lower. And you know I think basically you pursued it the way you needed to in the intelligent way was by playing more the strategic, the long term I could potentially give you big exposure. Another thing too frankly is in my…I'm a little older than you are.
David: Yeah, a little bit.
Jeff: A little bit, I think my son is about your age actually, the one that was a baby when I started my business. But…
David: I am 25 today, it's my birthday.
Jeff: Okay, well my son is 24. So yeah. So, we have established that I'm older than you now. But like one of the things I personally…and I don't know how useful this is for people at home, but I have always focused on supporting young people and the young up-and-comers in this industry. It's always been something I've overtly, intentionally done. And from a mentoring standpoint, from creating an impact, that's really the bottom line. I've got this great business, great lifestyle, I make a lot of money, and the most important thing is the impact I make. And so I just see that as one way of mentoring young people plus they're the people that are going to take care of me when I'm 70 years old and I like need to…like, “Boy, could you send an e-mail for me or something?” So I've always focused on supporting young up-and-coming entrepreneurs and you know you fit into that mold.
David: I love to hear that because not only I'm young but also we built a foundation in France called The Cliques and the purpose of this foundation is to help youth to be living their dreams. And we have…I take one question in each of my interviews to promote the foundation.
Jeff: And oh by the way, happy birthday.
David: Thank you very much. Yeah, thank you very much. So, what could be your message directly to youth to achieve what they want to achieve?
Jeff: And this is for young entrepreneurs or young…
David: Yeah, young entrepreneurs. Let's do that.
Jeff: So, what I would say is first of all it's awesome to be young and… I mean I started my business when I was 35 years old. And so, to do it when you're young is just absolutely amazing. I don't want to be too trivial but Napoleon Hill said, “If you can think it and you can conceive it and you can see there's a possibility, that you can achieve it.”
David: I love this.
Jeff: And I truly believe that. We had nothing when I started this business and now it does millions of dollars of sales, I have this full team, I was able to support this team, we're able to just have this incredible lifestyle for my family. But it is, at the end of the day it's, being an entrepreneur is about providing value. There's just no way that you…you know, you can fool people for a short period of time but on the long term, you get paid, compensated to create value. And then the other thing is like if you're gonna be an entrepreneur, you have to be a leader, you absolutely…
David: What is a leader for you?
Jeff: A pathfinder, someone who lives congruently, someone who leads by example.
David: Inspire people.
Jeff: Absolutely. You know, this world needs more inspiration and aspiration, and it needs the tools and all the stuff behind it but you have to inspire. And you have to be a learner too, you have to learn.
David: How they can learn, lay books and lead?
Jeff: Yeah, well, I mean, The bigger meta picture of it is by…the thing that stops learning is, “I already knew that.” That attitude of, “I knew that,” or, “I disagree.” Going into a situation and saying…you know, looking for reasons to disagree. And then being defensive. When you're defensive about what you learn or about what you do or what you eat or what you wear, that just shuts off all learning. So, you have to stay open, you've got to turn off that filter of, “I already knew that.” I am here at Experts Academy for Brendan Brushards event and I just was onstage speaking…I've been here before, I've been here several times, but I'll still be in that room learning. I'll still listen to Evan, Brendan, I'll still listen to Brendan, I'll still listen to the other speakers and I'll still meet people and I'll ask them about their business because you can never stop learning.
David: Yeah and sometimes you can learn the same thing but it's the right time so you can apply it.
Jeff: Like one of the…I've got a lot of…so I'm a big adventurer, outdoor adventurer. I whitewater, kayaking, skiing…I'm blanking on them. Just all kinds…I live out in the mountains in Colorado, it's incredible.
David: I love Colorado. It was my first time in the USA, it was in the Colorado.
David: Nice time, just next to Denver, the city was…I forget.
Jeff: Boulder, ever been in Boulder?
Jeff: Boulder. Yeah, Boulder is nice, Boulder is nice. So one of the things I do is whitewater kayaking like I've actually paddled my kayak off waterfalls and stuff so I'm fairly accomplished. But when you're a kayaker, one of the great things about it is you can self-rescue. So if your boat gets knocked over you can roll back up, you can roll the boat up. And so it's wonderful because then if you're in trouble you can just rescue yourself in most situations. But when you're learning to kayak you need to learn to roll and that means your boat's upside down and you're not breathing, inherently a stressful situation, and you have to do these reach up…once you know how to do it, it's like riding a bike. It's not that hard but the learning of it is…there's some time spent learning and flailing and having troubles. And I know when I was trying to learn, people like they'd give me all this coaching and you still fail and fail and fail and fail. And then one person said, like one thing…it was really no different from all the other advice but he just said it in a slightly different way. And when I heard that, I was like, “Oh.” So what you said is exactly right, it's like you never know exactly when you're gonna hear the one thing that makes all the difference. And it could be very similar…
David: One sentence.
Jeff: Yeah. Exactly. Learning to ski…oh that's another. I'm a big skier and like many skiers, my downfalls, I get my weight back on my skiis. And it's hard to ski when you want to be forward on your skis. And people would always say, “You've got to get forward.” And I think, “I've got to be forward, I've got to be forward.” And then one person said, “Press your shins against the front of the boots.” And that was all I had to do, it was like all of a sudden I'm forward. So there's a lot of ways to say keep your weight forward but when that one person…and actually it wasn't even an instructor, it was my wife and she's barely an intermediate skier but the instructor told her that and she said, “My instructor said, push your chins against the front of your boots.” And it's like…and my skiing changed in an instant. So, that's another thing, any of us can change our life in an instant, we can do it. And it can just take a little thing like that.
David: I love that also. I have an amazing question for you, I love this question. So according to you, how to become a loser. Let's imagine that I am training to help people to become a loser, what could be the key factors of a loser according to you?
Jeff: And this is assuming being a loser is a bad thing because…
David: That I don't know but…
Jeff: Well, I mean because like…one of the keys to businesses failing fast. So you can almost say a failure is like a loss because the thing if you expect not being a perfectionist to getting stuff out there is to fail fast.
David: So to be a loser you have to avoid failures?
Jeff: Exactly, exactly. And I do think that is the key to being a loser. I think…so this is a good question, it is a good question. So I think that when you look at someone, one of the greatest predictors of whether they'll have success or not, whether they'll be a loser or not, is when they look at someone else, someone that's having success, do they take inspiration from them or do they try to find ways to belittle them? They're find reasons why that person is having, “They were born with this or they're good-looking or they have a family that gives his background or…”
David: The right size, the right…
Jeff: Yes. They've got curly hair or whatever. Do you look and try to find, “Yeah well they're having success, but the reason they're having it and I'm not is because of this reason.” Or do you look at someone and say, “Wow, that person is having success. That is so freaking awesome and I want to be like them and I'm going to try to emulate them.”
David: Okay, so…
Jeff: And the next step is even…so I'll take you to another step, let's go even beyond that and find someone who has more challenges than you that is having success. Someone who has started with less and just for whatever reason, they've got a disability or whatever, they've got additional challenges. If you could go out looking for those people to be inspirations for you, that's huge.
David: Yeah, it's huge. I met some…I don't know how to say that in English [foreign language 00:33:13] handicap [inaudible 00:33:16], people with handicap and I learned a lot from them to achieve what I want to go to the next step.
Jeff: Right. And so it's awesome that you went and sought that out and that's…to me that's one of the greatest predictors of success. Do you look at someone who is having success and find the reasons why it won't work for you, or do you find the reasons to take inspiration from them?
David: Right. In your methods you talk about the leverage of frustration, you list a lot of leverage. So can you share us some leverage?
Jeff: Yeah. So, one of the things I teach is mental triggers. There are things that are in our brains all of us that they influence us, they cause us to act. Things like reciprocity, if we give something to someone they want to give something back. Authority, if you're perceived as an authority, if you're a doctor in a white coat then you're going to be more influential. Community, like if you perceived yourself as being in a community, you'll act like the people…like you think the people in that community are supposed to act. Social proof if we see a bunch of other people do and stuff.
David: Like the restaurants.
Jeff: Restaurant or like social media. I mean people come to your channel and you've got 100,000 views on this video, wow. I remember I just saw a video recently there was like 3.5 million views on this video and it was just this guy playing guitar in the street. I'm like, “What's up?” Normally like the first 15 seconds weren't that interesting but I'm like, “I've got to watch this because there's 3.5 million views.” And it didn't turn out to be a great video but so that's social proof. So all those different mental triggers. And there's more. Anticipation is one that I teach in Product Launch Formula, just getting people polled into like a ritual or an event, very powerful. And all those mental triggers are a great way to create influence in other people.
David: Yeah, I love that. And I would like to ask you something because when I meet people I have two…I see two mindsets. Some people say to me “you don't choose any frustration and the people will buy your products.” And I have other people who say to me “okay you add value but you have to use leverage and things to sell more.” What do you think about that?
Jeff: So, some people are saying I'm having success without using it and other people are saying…
David: You have to use it.
Jeff: Well, I mean do you want to leave half the sales on the table, I mean do they have that phrase in French? It's like, yeah you could make 50,000 or you could make 100,000, which do you want?
Jeff: You'll do better if you use those triggers, if you understand psychology, if you understand how people…how their brains work. It's like…and some people they feel squeamish about it where they're like, “Oh I don't know, I don't want to do that.” I'm like, “Are you married, did you ever have a girlfriend or a boyfriend?” It's like we use those triggers everywhere in our life. When we are at a restaurant and we want to get the waiter to come over to us, no matter what we're doing at any point we're always using those triggers. When we go into work and we want to ask our boss for a raise, no matter what we're doing at any point, we're always selling ourselves. You have to sell yourselves, so the question is, do you want to do it effectively or you want to do it ineffectively?
David: So when you…I can imagine that when you started to use those triggers and send alerts, you have some people who criticize you. How do you…and how did you overcome all this criticizing?
Jeff: That's what a lot of people struggle with and I thankfully just haven't.
David: Okay, perfect.
Jeff: I just, you know, the thing is is, no one ever built statutes for critics, there's no statutes out there for critics. Everyone can be a critic especially now in social media people are going to flame you no matter…there are people that criticize Mother Theresa, all kinds of people criticized Gandhi. Jesus Christ they crucified him, right? Martin Luther King, shot to death. The greatest leaders ever, the greatest givers ever, they got criticized. So if I get criticism, whatever.
David: It's a consequence of building great things.
Jeff: Yeah. I mean if you're going to play big, I mean look, why…
David: You have to embrace it.
Jeff: Right, you do. And it's like…actually I just heard Brendan say this, he's like, “I just hit someone.” I heard him say it a couple of hours ago he's like, “On one of my videos I just had someone put #douchebag.” He's like, “Yes I have arrived.” I mean, If you're going to play big, you're going to get people that aren't going to love you, you know? And that's fine, in fact part of your marketing is to repel the people you don't want and attract the people that you want.
Jeff: Those people that are perfect clients for me, there's people that aren't perfect clients for me. I want the people that are perfect. My life is a lot better when I have the clients that are perfect for me. I like to think…I have this business coach Dan Sullivan and he gave me this line he said, “The clients you want are the people that you want to be a hero to, the people you want to be a hero to. The other people, forget them.” You're only one of his clients and whether they…who cares whether they…I mean they're just…if you let someone else criticize you that you don't know, you have now given up, you've abdicated your mental state…you've outsourced your mental state to someone. There was someone on YouTube making a comment about me, a negative comment about me. If I let that affect me, this person I don't even know…it's joebob372@gmail or whatever. If I'm going to let him affect my mental state, I'm not going to get very far.
Jeff: You can't give that power especially to someone you don't know. I mean your spouse, your kids, your parents, okay. They're people that their opinion should matter to you.
David: You care about.
Jeff: But someone you don't know, you're gonna let them control your mental…in their business…
David: So they are an opportunity to help you to build a strong mental state.
David: Right, I love that.
Jeff: Yeah, yeah.
David: You give a lot of content in your Product Launch Formula and I would like to know when you build the project, do you think it could be either some reasons that too much content could be a bad thing in your project?
Jeff: Yeah, absolutely. This is something…so I'm now on pillar four, it's the fourth complete new…it's actually the fifth if you count the very first one. So I've remade the course five times. And one of the things I…
David: It's great, it's great.
Jeff: Thank you. One of the things I've focused on the last really with 3.0 and 4.0, was the learning experience in making it, condensing it, trying to cut the number of hours that's actually in the product that's required to learn.
David: Yeah, tools. Okay.
Jeff: Yeah. I've focused on making videos short so people could consume. So videos are usually 8, 10 minutes long instead of…I mean the old version was 50-minute videos, no one wants to watch a 50-minute video. You know we did things like mix up, there's full motion video, there's screen capture video. Every module I have an introduction and a conclusion that tells people what they're going to learn and what they learn. Did a lot of things around that to make it easier to consume the product. When I go out into the market I don't…
David: So your content is a Product Launch?
Jeff: Yeah. It's not how I sold it, I didn't go out into the market and… I probably just messed the audio up. I didn't go out into the market and say, “Buy my new product, I made the video shorter.” That's not how I sold it, but because that's not gonna be a great sales piece. But it's important. I'd like to say you sell what people want and you give them what they need. You know, because a lot of…you know, think about it, it's like someone needs to lose weight it's like, “Okay, eat less food and exercise more, okay?” You're going to say, “Well, take this magic thing and put this magic thing over here and do this magic thing.” That's what you're gonna sell. And then when they get your program you let them to do those magic things but then you also say, “Oh by the way, this is how you exercise more, this is how you eat less and this is how we're gonna support you.” So, because I got a bit sidetracked but in Product Launch Formula it's…all your teaching it's…10 years ago it was fashionable to create what they called Thud Factor, like give people a really big thing like a big box of stuff but no one wants that anymore.
Jeff: If it was just a matter of watching videos, you can watch as many videos as you want on YouTube. It's being concise and really being focused and giving people the full…just a great learning experience.
David: Okay, so I would like to add a small question. If your video are more short and you give a lot of content freely, how do you do to explain why something is paid, is not free and because you…for example, I give a lot of content, interviews, a lot of videos and sometimes people ask me, “Why I have to buy you something because you give so much?”
Jeff: Right. It's been my experience the clients that you really want, the best clients, they are going to look at your stuff and say, “Wow, that is amazing, I'd love your stuff and if he's giving this much away for free, I can't imagine how awesome it is if I buy his paid product.” That's been how it's worked for me, the best clients are the ones that want more and they're going to step up and purchase more. And you know we're in the direct marketing business, at the end of the day if two people out of 100 buy your product, you can do really well. Part of it I like…when I put out free content, I know most people aren't gonna buy the product. But that's fine. It's like why not just create the most value out in the world, you've got a massive value for the people that don't buy the product because in the end, I know I'm going to attract the perfect clients, they're going to come in and they're going to buy my stuff. And they're going to…they're just going to move up in the higher and higher levels of…because I have products that go up to $34,000 a year and I can't…those programs are completely full with the waiting list. So I give them tons of free stuff and then I've got more expensive stuff then I've got more expensive…
David: For everyone?
David: It's great.
Jeff: I mean the thing you don't want to be in this market is try to compete in price. The only people that want to compete in price is like Wal-Mart and you don't want to be competing against Wal-Mart.
David: So, it was an amazing interview, I'd like to thank you very much.
Jeff: You're welcome.
David: Yeah, it was great.
Jeff: You had some good questions, I appreciate.