DAVID LAROCHE: So hello, Achievers! Today, I am with a new guest. He is the Dr. David Gruder, he is well known as America’s Integrity Expert. Due to his happiness, success and a lot of things you would discover, he is very inspiring and he is with me San Diego. So hello, David.
DAVID GRUDER: Hello David, nice to be with you.
DAVID LAROCHE: Me too, how are you today?
DAVID GRUDER: I am happy.
DAVID LAROCHE: Perfect, it’s a good start.
DAVID GRUDER: Thank you, how are you today?
DAVID LAROCHE: It is an awesome day, I met so inspiring people, in so inspiring place I love that. I am reaching my goal.
DAVID GRUDER: That’s perfect.
DAVID LAROCHE: I’ll let you to introduce yourself, and I will ask you about your background and your journey, but in one sentence what do you do today?
DAVID GRUDER: Well, I am a clinical and organizational development psychologist, who has a very unusual area of specialization. I help leaders and businesses make integrity profitable.
DAVID LAROCHE: Great, I would love to know how did you become that?
DAVID GRUDER: Well, how long story would you like to hear?
DAVID LAROCHE: Yeah, yeah.
DAVID GRUDER: The short version?
DAVID LAROCHE: Yeah the short version and what is very important for me and what I would like to share to my audience is especially your struggles and how did you over came it because a lot of people think: “Oh! The successful people have no fears and no struggles, a lot of luck; if I don’t have that, I can’t succeed”. So yeah, your journey and especially your struggles?
DAVID GRUDER: Yes, well I’ve had plenty of struggles over the course of my journey, and the way that integrity emerged as essentially a brand for me was that I have been someone who through the course of my career has always loved variety. And variety is very difficult to brand, so people who are branding experts would constantly scold me about saying “you got to specialise in just one thing and then get known broadly for that and when I was younger, I really rebelled against that because my freedom was more important to me than branding was.”
DAVID LAROCHE: It is very interesting because a lot of people are saying me exactly the same thing, I have to focus in one thing, yeah.
DAVID GRUDER: And so what I finally started to do and it wasn’t that terribly long ago in the course of my life span at least it was about 13 or so years ago, I started asking, the people around me what they thought I specialized in. And I was very surprised by the recurring answer that I got. There were of course people who depending on what their exposure to me was, said “well, they thought I was a specialist in speaking or in psychology or in energy psychology or in relationships”. So there was a list of those kinds of things but the common denominator, was people would say to me well you know it’s silly that you are asking this question, you are a specialist in integrity, and I would look at them with kind of surprise like I had never really thought about that and the more I thought about the question of integrity, the more I came to realise that integrity was one of the themes that tied all of the various speciality areas that I have together, but what caused me to really embrace integrity publicly as being a specialist in that was when I had a very painful life experience, that was about the ending of my first marriage, which I never honestly expected, and the process of my recovering from the profound, emotional pain that I experienced. As a result of the end of that marriage, caused me to realise that even though other people viewed me as someone who had very high integrity, I was missing a very important aspect of integrity that I had never thought of as integrity.
See, I had grown up in a family that valued societal integrity, social responsibility, and ethics, and relationship integrity doing what you say you are going to do. So, my family’s definition of integrity really revolved around that, around social responsibility and being a person of your word in relationships. What I didn’t realise until I was looking closely at my contributions, my unintentional contributions to the end of my first marriage. Was that there was a form of integrity that I never thought of as integrity, self-integrity. I was perfectly fine neglecting myself, and the more I neglected my own self-care, my own balance, my own heart in service of my mission, and being of service and being helpful in the world, the more my capacity to love from here, from my heart shut down and got narrowed, and the more I neglected my own self-care, the more tired and exhausted I became, which meant I became more irritable, and more critical, and more judgemental, and was all because, I didn’t realise that integrity was 3 dimensional that it was one-third authenticity, one-third connection, and one third impact. So, as I was healing, from the pain of my divorce, I realised that part of what I was being gifted with through that pain, was an understanding of integrity that I had never ever heard about before, that integrity was actually 3 dimensional.
DAVID LAROCHE: Great, yeah.
DAVID GRUDER: Not just one or two dimensional, because I have known people, who had great integrity when it comes to their sense of mission around social change, but the relationships are horrible, or their self-care is horrible and I have known people who are very passionate about relationship with other people, but they are happy to give up themselves to be loved by others and I know other people who are very strong in self integrity, in authenticity and they really do not care of other people have negative reactions to them and they do not think that they really have much responsibility for or ability to have positive impact in the broader world.
DAVID LAROCHE: Yeah it’s great, and I have a question for you, do you think that people like you and like each expert who have a gift to share – like you have integrity -, do you think every expert will have the challenges, the experiences, the struggles to help him to find his message and do you think you will maybe during all your life, you will be faced to challenge about integrity to learn more and more to help people, do you understand what I would like to ask you?
DAVID GRUDER: Yeah well, there is no question that I have done some of my best learning, when I have been in my deepest pain. You know there is an old saying that I have never been able to find the source for its anonymous. It is mostly people change, not because they have seen the light, but because they feel the heat, and part of what I have been committed to more and more as I grown older and older, is learning how to be a happy learner, rather than someone who needs to be in pain before I learn, but up until more recent years I absolutely did my greatest amount of growing when I was in the deepest amount of pain. Yeah, so that is definitely true. As far as integrity goes, you know when I felt like I was called to position myself finally as an integrity expert, part of me did not want to do that, because it was very clear to me that if I was going to say yes to that mission, I was going to have to be willing to embody integrity at such a high level that I was completely my being and my actions were completely aligned with my message and I was not sure I wanted to be that, I was not sure that I wanted to hold myself to that highest standard, but being a recovering perfectionist, that kind of won over. So, I did ultimately say yes to that, and I have continued to learn more and more about, not just integrity, but applied integrity. What integrity looks like as a set of skills, and as a set of behaviours in peoples personal lives, and in business and among leadership, so I feel like I am just beginning to get a full feel and picture for what applied integrity includes.
DAVID LAROCHE: And what do you think, do you think the kind of universe will test you every time to test maybe more than others your integrity?
DAVID GRUDER: No I do not think so, I know so. Of course, whenever I have made any kind of commitment to anything. The universe responds to me and I know I am not alone this way, but I have heard other people say this too, but I will just say it in a personal way the universe responds to me by throwing experiences that mean that essentially are as though the universe is saying to me “David are you sure? Are you sure you really want to make this commitment move in this direction?” So yes, constantly, there are challenges around that.
DAVID LAROCHE: Great, it is very important for me to tell people to listen to that. I would love to know what is IQ and how we can develop that?
DAVID GRUDER: Well you know we live in an age where, there are more and more types of intelligence that people are talking about; emotional intelligence, relationship intelligence, and spiritual intelligence and then there is the second IQ that’s not intellectual intelligence, or intelligence quotient, but our integrity quotient, our integrity IQ, that’s the IQ that I focus on.
DAVID LAROCHE: Do you think we can develop that I am sure but?
DAVID GRUDER: Well if we cannot there is no hope for me, yes of course we can.
DAVID LAROCHE: And how we can do that?
DAVID GRUDER: Well, what is interesting to me is that it is not so much about developing it as it is about reclaiming it. Because for me integrity intelligence is something that is wired into who we are as human beings from birth.
DAVID LAROCHE: From birth, maybe more…
DAVID GRUDER: Yeah because what integrity is grounded in. You know let me back track for a moment if I could because I want to say something brief about how the dictionary defines integrity. It defines integrity as a state of being hold and complete, in relationship to some code of ethics or morals, but the problem with the definition is who defines what whole and complete is, and what set of morals and ethics are we are talking about. So, the dictionary definition is philosophically interesting but it falls in the category that I refer to as true but not useful, however in my study of sustainably happy people and how sustainably happy people, what they have in common with each other that is different from what people who are not sustainably happy, having common with each other, I came to understand that all of us have 3 core drives that we are born with, the drive to be who we truly are, which is our drive for authenticity; the drive to bond with others, which is the drive for connection; and the drive to influence the world around us, which is our drive for impact; and the great breakthrough for me in understanding what sustainably happy people were telling me because sustainably happy people do not select one of those forms of happiness over the other two. They live with the intersection of all three, so they report that they do feel like they are being who they really truly are, they feel bonded with people who are important to them and they feel like they have positive influence in whatever their chosen spears of influence are. The breakthrough for me was that, authenticity translates into to self-integrity, connection translates into relationship integrity, and impact translates into collective or societal integrity, and when we have that definition of integrity intelligence, we have a way of understanding that it is not about developing our integrity intelligence, it is about reclaiming our birth right, and understanding that it is not possible to separate or divorce integrity and happiness because they are one in the same.
DAVID LAROCHE: So happiness is kind of consequence of true integrity?
DAVID GRUDER: Happiness is a consequence of true integrity, and true integrity is a consequence of authentic real 3 dimensional happiness.
DAVID LAROCHE: Great, I love that. Yes I have one question before this one, why we have to reclaim that?
DAVID GRUDER: Well for three basic reasons that are tied with these 3 core drives. I needed to reclaim my happiness because for the first 35 years of my life, I was absolutely certain that I was on this planet in this life as punishment. I had moments of feeling joy or happiness, but I did not have sustainable happiness because I was convinced that something really self-defeating about myself and it was not until I was 35 years old that I finally started to consider the possibility that maybe I was wrong, that I was here as punishment, you see. So first and foremost, I owe happiness to myself because otherwise what I have to offer the world, I offer with such a sense of heaviness and intensity and self-importance that who want to learn from me? So first of all is about being happy from me. The second reason is because people want to be in connection with people whose hearts they can touch and for me happiness does not mean being in a state of joy all of the time. For me happiness means being in a state of connection and relationship with my full range of emotions where they do not rule me, but they are actually teaching tools that are constantly helping me understand my relationship with myself and my relationship with world around me, and so happiness is important for me in terms of relationships and the other part of happiness, for me is in order for me to fulfil my life purpose around social change. I cannot do that well if I am not being a light, in the world. If you look at figure like a Nelson Mandela or a Martin Luther King, or Gandhi when he was presenting to the public these people are and many others, Mother Teresa, looked very happy. Their own inner joy was infectious, that is not to say that each of these human beings did not have their moments of suffering in misery, they all did, but they were able to tap into that well spring of joy and it was their sense of joy and their sense of purpose that inspired the world around, and if they were heavy unhappy, tormented souls they would not have drawn as many people to them as they did.
DAVID LAROCHE: It is great, I love that. I have a question about integrity, what do you think about for example you know way to succeed, but you are not sure that it is maybe the good way, how to feel inside yourself, what you have do, because we are already good to lie to yourself, oh it is okay! How can we do to look t inside yourself how is true integrity with yourself and do the right actions, right about what is important for us?
DAVID GRUDER: What I find is that people, who do live at the intersection of what is right for me, what is right for us, and what is right for the world, cannot help but do the right thing in each moment. It is people who like I used to do much more than I do now, who only pay attention to one or two of the 3 dimensions of being a complete self, a whole and complete self that it is those people who struggle with what doing the right thing might look like. I think you asking me two questions; I think you are asking about how do people identify, what the right thing is to do? and the other is how do they have a frame work for success, yeah?
I can say more about the doing the right thing if you would like, but it is tied to my understanding of what success is.
DAVID LAROCHE: Yeah, I would love to have your point of view.
DAVID GRUDER: Yeah so we have talked about authenticity connection and impact, as the 3 core drives that are connected to sustainable happiness and integrity intelligence, 3 dimensional integrity. If you consider those 3 dimensions as though they are horizontal integrity, there is another level of integrity that I call vertical integrity as well and the vertical integrity is where there is alignment, among my values, my vision, my personal mission, my ultimate goals in life, and the choices I make about what I do with my life in my career, in my service work etc., and when there is a vertical alignment among all of those aspects who I am, combined with my being a 3 dimensional self, that to me is two-thirds of the success formula, because people who are authentic connected an impactful and have that alignment among their values, their vision, their mission, their goals, and their life choices. These are people who report to me that they feel successful in their lives. No matter what amount of money they make or do not make, no matter what position in life they fill or do not fill, they experience themselves to be successful, and the third part of the success formula in addition to those 3 core drives, what I am calling right now the horizontal integrity and the vertical alignment, the vertical integrity, is persistent skilled action.
So when we have skilled persistence in pursuing and expressing that vertical alignment and being whole and complete as complete 3 dimensional selves, that to me is the success formula and the only thing that is missing in how I am describing that success formula is that in order to be persistent in the skills that I use that are in service of my vertical integrity, I need to be clear about having a framework, a road map, strategies, and mentoring that helps me continually expand and that holds me accountable for living in alignment for what I say my values and vision and mission and goals and purposes in the world are and helping me make sure that I am not neglecting one of my 3 aspects of a whole self. That to me is a success formula, horizontal integrity, vertical integrity, and persistent mentored skilled behaviour.
DAVID LAROCHE: Great, great, I love the way you, I do not know how to say that in English, maybe it is a kind of system, I love the way you presents your idea it is great?
DAVID GRUDER: That is great, thank you.
DAVID LAROCHE: I would like to take an example, for example you assume that someone who have build a new restaurant, it is new so nobody knows this restaurant and he decided for example to pay some people to, its well-known that when you enter the restaurant if its empty, you don’t want to come, okay? and if its full you want to come. So it is low of influence, and what do you think about the fact that you can pay people to build these first clients? Can we do that with integrity? I have to explain, why I am asking you that? We are meeting lot of different people, we are meeting people about persuasion, negotiations, sales and I believe a lot in power of communication in persuasions, but it’s very hard for me in marketing or so to know when I am lying to myself because I very want to succeed and when I do the right things, do you understand and yeah so I take the example of restaurant, because it’s not so bad to do that, if the food is good but yeah.
DAVID GRUDER: When I hire someone to design an advertisement that I want to print in a newspaper or magazine, or show on television, I am paying someone to create a perception about me. If I am hiring people to eat at my restaurant in order to create a perception, I am hiring people to create a perception about me. So, what has for me less to do with the behaviour and more to do with the intention behind the behaviour. You see there are two forms of creating consent with the public, consent meaning the public says yes to something, and one way is through informed consent, and the other way is through manufactured consent. Manufactured consent is the prevailing strategy for social engineering. It was designed and given that term almost 100 years ago now by the father of modern public relations actually, whose name was Edward Bernese, Bernese not spelled like a sauce, but spelled Berneys and what Berneys did was he developed a set of strategies for manipulating the public, manipulating public opinion to support products, services, causes for candidates, while thinking they were doing that at their own free will, but where they had been propagandised or manipulated into providing that support. That is manufactured consent, that’s creating yes, in the mind of somebody that wouldn’t have come to yes on their own.
Informed consent in the restaurant for example, looks like this. The restaurant owner hires people to eat in restaurant in order to draw people in to have an experience first-hand themselves of the food that’s in that restaurant and if what that person is providing, with what that restaurant owner is providing, is truly helpful, high quality food prepared in a delicious way and served in an enjoyable atmosphere, then the only purpose that hiring people to eat in the restaurant would have served is the purpose of helping the public discover that there is something they were looking for in the first place in this restaurant when they might not have chosen to come in otherwise. That’s informed consent because all people needed was an opportunity to find that what they were looking for was here in this restaurant.
Now contrast that with what oh! Let’s say coco-cola does. This is going to get me in some trouble, but coco-cola, I will say at the front end I happened to like the taste of coco-cola, but what coca cola selves isn’t coca cola. It is true value and its perceiving value of completely disconnected in the restaurant and I will say why in a second. In the restaurant example we are talking about where the food is good and its helpful and people have a good experience eating there, there is alignment between the true value of eating at that restaurant and the perceived value that there is a value there right. With coca cola there is a complete divorce between the two. What coca-cola is selling is happiness and peace in the world and all kinds of warm fuzzy feeling and special feelings and all of that stuff and why is coca cola selling that? because they need to manipulate people in to drinking something that has incredibly such high sugar content, that if we have the sugar directly in to our mouth we will get nauseous, we would want to through a walk and has such high salt content in order to make us thirsty, so that we drink more and more and more of it. So that the more we drink of this high sugar fake food the higher risk we are at the developing diabetes and becoming overweight and all of those things. So the true value of coca cola is illness. The perceived value of the coca cola according to its ad campaign is happiness and joy that is lack of integrity. The restaurant example the way that I described it is an example of real integrity; it all depends on the motivation.
DAVID LAROCHE: Yeah, because I see 2 things what you are seeing, the first one where is example of the restaurant, you attract the clients, but he has the opportunity to say yes or no after if you doesn’t, like.
DAVID GRUDER: Yes that’s informed consent.
DAVID LAROCHE: Yeah and the second thing that you are saying that they attract people in respecting as value and because they are doing a great thing for the clients right. So it’s a huge insight for me. You helped me a lot you anything because it was, I was in trouble with that it is manipulation persuasion, oh! I don’t know, yeah.
DAVID GRUDER: It’s all persuasion, marketing is about persuasion, but persuasion is done in a way that informs people so that they can make whatever the right choice is for them that to me is ethical and when persuasion is used to manipulate people into making the decision that the person doing the selling wants them to make, regardless whether it’s good for the consumer that to me is unethical.
DAVID LAROCHE: So the last question we have to ask is, is my service or my project is good for my clients, if I am doing things to have them to say yes is it okay for me that‘s right?
DAVID GRUDER: Yes.
DAVID LAROCHE: Okay yes right answer, I would like to know what is according to you is energy psychology?
DAVID GRUDER: Well now we are going to really switch gears because energy psychology is a speciality area inside the field of psychology that uses specific deliberate treatments or the interventions with aspects of the human vibration matrix, the most commonly known portions of the human vibrations or the matrix that most of the public has heard of are the meridians, the series of avenues in our field that acupuncture points are located on, those are pathways that achieve our energy flows or chakras as it is often referred to but it is hard CH in Sanskrit. Chakras, which are centres of energy concentration and our bio field with the envelop of the energy that our physical body is living inside of and energy psychology uses very specific direct explicit interventions with these aspects of your human vibration matrix in order to help people rapidly and durably remove all baggage and blocks and then desired beliefs and peak performance and that’s what energy psychology is, is basically it’s a form of psychotherapy that in very methodical deliberate ways utilises the energy system to help with the psychotherapy to process.
DAVID LAROCHE: Can I use the energy psychology alone?
DAVID GRUDER: One of the beauties, one of many advantages of the energy psychology is that there are self-help versions of energy psychology. For example I have a self-health version that I have available but it’s far less well known, it’s just a CD that people can use that they can walk themselves through self-treatment using energy psychology methods but the most popular well known self-health version of the energy psychology is called the EFT, Emotional Freedom Technique, and that’s just one member of broad family of methods in the energy psychology family.
DAVID LAROCHE: So you have your CD, right? With your methods?
DAVID GRUDER: Yes it’s called energy psychology anywhere because it meant to be portable.
DAVID LAROCHE: So what can you, you have something to show me now what I can do and what the people can do in using that?
DAVID GRUDER: Sure, so there are three levels that I like to teach people about using energy psychology method, the first level has to do with systemically just helping them create a basic energy balance in their system so if you are to right now let’s do something that actually originally from yoga where shall I teach you this right now?
DAVID LAROCHE: Yeah, yeah.
DAVID GRUDER: So take your left ankle and put it over your right ankle, take your hands put them out in front of you with the thumbs down and cross your right hand over your left and cross them together and now bring them up to your chest comfortably in a way that’s physically comfortable for you. You don’t want to strain your body and now in this posture and you can have your feet flat on the floor if you like when you inhale, you bring your tongue to the top of your mouth and when you exhale you bring your tongue down to the bottom of your mouth okay. So you can inhale through or exhale through your nose or mouth just breath comfortably but when you are inhaling tongue goes up here I just telling you with my mouth open but you don’t have to open your mouth, and when you are exhaling your tongue goes down here behind your lower front teeth and again you can do that with your mouth close people don’t have to see what you are doing and you sitting in this posture for about 2 to 3 min and if you are feeling stressed or agitated and need to calm down, this is very helpful exercise for that. It’s also helpful for people with their having difficulty following sleep because we can do this posture when you are laying down and it can help relax our system. So that’s one thing and then let me offer the opposite of that which would be forgetting be building up energy for becoming more energized, and this is something that we usually do standing up but for the sake of not having to move the cameras, you and I will do the sitting down.
DAVID LAROCHE: We can do that, we can stand up.
DAVID GRUDER: Yeah, okay
DAVID LAROCHE: Just take it.
DAVID GRUDER: And this is called the cross crawl, and what you do is you take your left hand and put it on your right knee and right hand put it on your left knee just like that. So we are doing here is we are crossing the middle of our body which is encouraging for left and right hemisphere to talk to each other in our brand and where drawing energy throughout our system as well with what we are doing and we can add little bit more to get your brain working even more fully if you’ll face me and keep doing this and now what I’ll have you do this close your eyes keep going back in forth close your eyes yeah that’s right. Now open your eyes look at my fingers down here, keep going back in forth, keep doing that just with your head now just with your eyes not your head. That’s right, now look down this way, now follow my fingers just with your eyes, keep your eyes stationary, don’t move your head just your eyes that’s right. Good, good now back the other way yeah, see this is making you happy, and now count to 5.
DAVID LAROCHE: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5….
DAVID GRUDER: And hum some notes. (Humming) and now count 5 again.
DAVID LAROCHE: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
DAVID GRUDER: Good and you can stop now; check inside to see how you feel right now.
DAVID LAROCHE: Very good.
DAVID GRUDER: Yeah, so that’s more energizing and some people do variations on that where if they do all those extra steps they will instead of I had you count and then hums some notes and then count again. Others will have you hums some notes and then count how much second time, but they are all different variations on it great.
DAVID LAROCHE: Okay it’s great.
DAVID GRUDER: So that’s for balancing our full system, the second is that okay to keep going.
DAVID LAROCHE: Yeah.
DAVID GRUDER: The second level of energy psychology self-help that I like to teach people has to do with when they want to make a change or they want to deal with an issue but they have objections inside themselves. Sometimes what we want to do, there is something inside is that says oh! No I really, I can’t do that. I shouldn’t do that because it’s not safe to make that change. I don’t deserve to make that change or someone might get hurt, someone’s might feel hurt if I change or things like that. So that we often times when in fact I would say more than often times when people including me have wanted to make particular change for appearing your time in construct to I just discover then this moment then I want to make a change but they want have wanted to make the change for a period of time. They have not make change here and I have found that is always because there is some risk involved in that making the change that they haven’t dealt with yet and until they deal with the risk, until they give with the objection, they won’t have the internal permission to make the change.
So let’s do a couple of energy exercises for clearing away objections of the changes that we want to make. So I am not going to ask for the recording to say out loud what you are thinking of but can think in your own mind about a change that you want to make that you haven’t make yet.
DAVID LAROCHE: I can speak about this.
DAVID GRUDER: Okay that’s fine.
DAVID LAROCHE: It’s okay for me, the change they don’t… Can you repeat your question?
DAVID GRUDER: A change that you would like to make that you haven’t made.
DAVID LAROCHE: I have one…I would like to manage better my anger.
DAVID GRUDER: You would like to have manage your anger better.
DAVID LAROCHE: Yeah.
DAVID GRUDER: Okay, and so if you were better at managing your anger what risks would you be taking?
DAVID LAROCHE: Wow.
DAVID GRUDER: Well, what risks did you feel you will be taking, even if you maybe you may not want to.
DAVID LAROCHE: Yeah, I have something, I am not sure; there is a kind of message inside myself that “if you are not angry this thing is nothing important”.
DAVID GRUDER: Good that’s a great example. So if I manage my anger better things might stop being important to me. I might lose my passion. I might lose my desire to help things be different, I need my anger in order to make sure that things change is that something like that?
DAVID LAROCHE: I think so I feel that.
DAVID GRUDER: Yeah I see it on your face, yeah good, okay. So let’s try an energy psychology treatment for that and we have seen right in this moment what impact it produces or it doesn’t produce for you. So tap the side of your hands at the side of your hand just like the karate chop point, and say even if it’s not safe for me to be managing my anger…
DAVID LAROCHE: Okay I am sorry, you want me to repeat? Even if it’s not safe.
DAVID GRUDER: For me to be effectively managing my anger.
DAVID LAROCHE: For me to be effectively managing my anger.
DAVID GRUDER: I deeply and profoundly.
DAVID LAROCHE: I deeply and profoundly.
DAVID GRUDER: Love and accept myself.
DAVID LAROCHE: Love and accept myself, yeah.
DAVID GRUDER: Okay, now let’s try another one, and let’s have you tap on the temple, the indentation that’s between your orbit around your eye and your hairline. It’s right here in between, indentation. Yeah so start tapping back and forth like this and say even if I lost some of my passion if I got rid of my anger, I lost some of my passion…
DAVID LAROCHE: Even if I lost some of my passion if I get rid of my anger
DAVID GRUDER: I deeply and profoundly, love and accept myself.
DAVID LAROCHE: I deeply and profoundly, love and accept myself.
DAVID GRUDER: Let’s do one more. I am going to do one more. I am going to do this in a different kind of way what is usually done, but I am going to have you tap on the location that’s right underneath your collar bone, just under the notch on the underside of the collar bone there is little indentation just out from the notch.
DAVID LAROCHE: Yeah, there……….
DAVID GRUDER: Little bit further out, can I find it for you? So there is the notch there is your collar bone and there is that indentation. So start tapping there, back and forth you doesn’t have to tap right on the skin, that’s good and them the following. I am willing to consider the possibility, that I can be free of my anger and still have all of my passion and commitment.
DAVID LAROCHE: I am willing to consider the possibility, that I can be free of my anger and still have all of my passion and commitment,
DAVID GRUDER: Good, okay now take a couple of comfortable breaths, you can stop tapping, and tell me about your objection to be over anger.
DAVID LAROCHE: Right objection to?
DAVID GRUDER: Tell me whether there’s still a risk that if you
DAVID LAROCHE: Now I feel less objection………
DAVID GRUDER: If you less objection. So, what you’ve done is to establish internal permission to read to change your energy system relationship with your and it would be at that point that would be would go in to the third aspect of what I like to teach people to be able to do with energy treatments, which is to actually treat that yourself. The first thing we did that we balanced your system in a global level, the second thing that we did was that we established internal permission to make the change that you want to make and the third thing that we would do, would be the actual make the change itself . So we could do that if you would like but it will take a little bit of the time.
DAVID LAROCHE: How many minutes?
DAVID GRUDER: Five minutes it will be useful for the people. So I am going to take you through a series of points on your body that are acupuncture points, that you will be tapping on and why you are doing the tapping, you are going to be thinking a thought to yourself, that you will be repeating over and over again and before we start we have to come up with that statement that you will be making to yourself. So it is what is it that is the statement that simply acknowledges whatever the blockage that you have around anger. So how would you put that in to words, this reluctance to get over being angry or this desire to be in right relationship with my anger, how will you put you?
DAVID LAROCHE: Like it’s a kind of goal.
DAVID GRUDER: Yeah, but I want to be able to change my perception when something happens and be able to switch very quickly, and construct something and build something with what happened. What is very important from there is to develop my ability to build something with everything happen and may be something were not predicted . If the card is full, now usually I feel anger, because I put a lot of money in this project and lot of energy and if something happened like I have some anger with myself and my goal is to be able to transform that and build a opportunity, literally I have good feeling that the ability to build something with everything, am I clear?
DAVID LAROCHE: I think so; let me say back to you what I think I understand.
DAVID GRUDER: Yeah, just to, for like a short example, yesterday I was doing video in this room with background. And as the first time the battery of the record stopped. Second time I changed the battery, but the battery was low. I had to start again. And third time it was the cam recorder and the sound was…..
DAVID LAROCHE: Was going down?
DAVID GRUDER: Yeah, going down and I haven’t a lot of time in the United States. I have a schedule to respect and I felt a lot of anger.After one or two hours, I succeeded to transform it and to switch and build may be the best video of the day. I was proud of that, and when I build something after a challenge, I love that. Am I clear? It’s more important than feeling good when I have the ability to build with something, yes, great?
So it’s sound like what you like to able to do has move very quickly from feeling frustrated to creating something good out of being challenged without having to spend much time feeling angry about it.
DAVID LAROCHE: Yeah and the ability to thanks what happens and use it.
DAVID GRUDER: Yes.
DAVID LAROCHE: And use it as a source of energy and power to build something.
DAVID GRUDER: What you describing is one of the key dimensions of integrity intelligence, which is the way to harvest gifts from unexpected or undesired like experiences.
DAVID LAROCHE: Yeah.
DAVID GRUDER: I call it harvesting for that reason and so it’s sounds like what your goal is to develop a different relationship with the energy that comes up inside you that you are used to calling anger and that you get temporarily stuck in, and instead to have a different relationship with that energy that comes up inside you, so that you use it almost immediately for harvesting gifts from the unexpected and unasked for. Am I describing this accurately for you?
DAVID LAROCHE: Yeah, yeah.
DAVID GRUDER: Okay, good, so on a scale of 0 to 10, how much do you believe in your ability to do that in those mornings when you are feeling frustrated and angry, zero meaning no that you don’t trust at all and ten means that you trust it completely.
DAVID LAROCHE: at this moment my ability to switch, right
DAVID GRUDER: When you imagine being in one of those moments. How much do you trust?
JULIE: Can we stop for one minute, because there was one mike that has got really low.
DAVID LAROCHE: Okay.
JULIE: I think it is yours.
DAVID LAROCHE: Change the battery, it is a good example.
DAVID GRUDER: Yeah.
DAVID LAROCHE: That’s okay.
JULIE: Is it yours?
DAVID LAROCHE: That’s okay, this is it?
JULIE: Because I don’t see this one, okay, so I will change.
DAVID GRUDER: That’s okay, test, test, and test.
JULIE: Okay, it is okay now.
DAVID LAROCHE: Just to check, sorry , I forgot.
DAVID GRUDER: Right so what I was asking is if you can rate, how much you believe your ability?
DAVID LAROCHE: 5 or 6.
DAVID GRUDER: 5 or 6, and of course you would like to feel it like it’s a 10, on a scale of 0 to 10.
DAVID LAROCHE: Yeah.
DAVID GRUDER: So five or six is where we starting, okay and so what you will be repeating inside yourself is this desire to feel fully confident in my ability or you can use a different word like….this desire is to fully trust my ability to harvest gifts quickly when undesired experiences happen.
DAVID LAROCHE: Yeah.
DAVID GRUDER: Yeah, or something like that in your own words, because you are just be repeating it yourself while where treating it and because French is your first language, I would suggest that you translate this ”en français” (in French), and repeat it “en français” [repeat in French], silently inside yourself. ”D’accord” [Okay?].
DAVID LAROCHE: Yes. So I have to repeat my desire about the ability to switch very quickly, right.
DAVID GRUDER: That’s what we could do, or we could do with the other way around, you see?
DAVID LAROCHE: Yeah, I can do that.
DAVID GRUDER: The other way around would be repeating to yourself this block, this difficulty I have, part of what makes this difficult to use as demonstration is because usually when I am teaching somebody or when I am teaching energy psychology methods. We remove the blockage first and then we embed the desired state second, but the impression that I have is that you are already ready to embed the desire in state that we don’t have to work more on removing the block, and do you have the same impression?
DAVID LAROCHE: Yeah.
DAVID GRUDER: Okay, so for the sake of the recording I want to explain why I am doing things a little bit differently from what one normally sees in an energy psychology demonstration or doing things little bit more rapidly than it is usual. So I will show you on me, I will show you where to tap on your body, and your tapping on your body you repeat silently to yourself in French that desire.
DAVID LAROCHE: Okay, okay.
DAVID GRUDER: You ready?
DAVID LAROCHE: Yeah.
DAVID GRUDER: Good. Right for the eyebrow and the nose meet, alright.
DAVID LAROCHE: Yeah.
DAVID GRUDER: Yeah, good, good, keep thinking about your desire, now tapping on the outside edge of your eye, move out here now. Now what you are tapping before which is out of here right on the body, right on the outside is good, repeating to yourself your desire. Now under the middle of your eye, right on the bone again, right on that bone is the occipital orbit, or the orbit of the eye is located inside, yeah. You are repeating the statement. Now underneath the middle of your nose, you will be tapping this same spot of with both finger when at the time and repeating statement yourself and underneath your lower lip right with the chin starts to come out, right in that indentation just before the chin comes that same spot with both fingers, ”répéter” [repeat]. Okay now tap on that collarbone that you were tapping on repeating the statement to yourself.
Good, now on the side of your body in between your ribs that is going to be a sore spot in between the couple of ribs tap there, repeating the statement to yourself. Now with the open hands slap on the lower part of your ribcage, touching a couple of different accu points this way, good. Now actually there are other points we could tap on, but I am having the feeling that you have already shifted a little bit, so let’s check, take a couple of cleansing breaths. Good! and think about this desire belief and rate it now, is it still 5 or 6 or is it less believable now, how would you rate it now?
DAVID LAROCHE: My desire in these moment is 10. My belief about my confidence is a kind of moment. My first message was then and the second message I got sending me it is not true, but I say it’s related to my desire.
DAVID GRUDER: Yeah, so your first impulse was to say that your belief in your ability to do this is now a ten, but your….in English the word be scepticism,
DAVID LAROCHE: Yeah.
DAVID GRUDER: Says that it’s couldn’t be a 10 yet, it has to be lower than attendance still, yeah.
DAVID LAROCHE: Yeah.
DAVID GRUDER: So what is your scepticism say it is, if it’s not a term what is it?
DAVID LAROCHE: Eight.
DAVID GRUDER: Eight, okay, so let’s try something very simple right now. Take one hand and with some figures tap here in the valley between the bones that grow up your these two knuckles, and now in have fully keep tapping exhale and lower your eyes with your head keep your head straight toward me and just your eyes looking down, okay. Now slowly inhale, good and exhale, good, okay you can stop tapping and tell me about your scepticism. Is your scepticism still on eight? You see the look on your face is that even, are you even be able to think about the issue.
DAVID LAROCHE: It’s weird because I have scepticism about my scepticism.
DAVID GRUDER: Yes, so you’re really good at playing mind games with yourself is what you are saying.
DAVID LAROCHE: Yeah.
DAVID GRUDER: Yeah, so may I, that’s why you see it. There is a saying that says if you see you got it.
DAVID LAROCHE: Yeah.
DAVID GRUDER: That’s right, right. Since this is just a demonstration…
DAVID LAROCHE: Yeah, it was great, thank you very much. This is a bonus in this interview.
DAVID GRUDER: You seem some interesting changes in a very short time and if this were a true complete section than we have to take about 45 minutes or so to go through the entire process step by step and I also would have probably done muscle testing with you kinesiology?
DAVID LAROCHE: Yeah.
DAVID GRUDER: In order to see what your energy system says about the progress that you are making. But in real life, what really tells us how much progress for making is what happens out in life. So test and see what happens if the results that it looks like to get in this demonstration hold over the time then that’s wonderful. If they don’t it’s not because the methods don’t work it because we didn’t do a full and complete treatment, but it is possible we may have done enough, so that is your energy system will rebalance itself now, around at your relationship with anger.
DAVID LAROCHE: Right, thank you very much. Julie, will ask two questions for you, I let her.
DAVID GRUDER: And it’s okay, that that light went out.
DAVID LAROCHE: Yeah, okay, can we change?
JULIE: For my questions I am doing a panel on education. So, I ask the same questions to my goal is to have hundreds of people and build a video which shows like, it’s always similar, so it’s to show that the improvement of education and we kind of all agreed on what to do, but now it is time to take actions. [not important French part here]. Okay, so my question is according to you how could we improve education?
DAVID GRUDER: Yeah, that’s a very large question, in the United States the educational system that we still have today and that people are trying to modify was created at the beginning of the industrial age by a group of business people and educators who got together and said, what does education need to look like in order to produce effective workers in the industrial age. Well, what the industrial age workers needed to be able to do was repetitive, memorised, tasks, over and over and over again. So, what did the educational system create? a lot of memorisation and wrote learning rather than critical thinking and decreasing amounts of creativity and independent thought and no collaboration intelligence because everyone had their own very specific job that they had to do on the assembly line over and over and over and over and over again so fast that they have to be memorized.
So that what they structured the education system around. They did a good job for what they were training people to be able to do back then. We don’t live in the industrial age anymore. We don’t even live in the post technological age. In my opinion we live in the entrepreneurial age. We live in an age where people are more and more interested in working for themselves in creating a career for themselves and in supporting themselves without having a job, but we are teaching people in school, the skills that they need to have in order to be successful entrepreneurial were not teach in creative thinking, collaboration skills, leadership skills, financial intelligence, and all of the other basic skills that are essential to entrepreneurial success. If we did today what they did at the beginning of the industrial age and we brought together today’s leading experts in successful entrepreneurship and combine them, have them collaborate with today’s leading experts in educational processing’s. We will come with the new educational system for our time until we have the courage and the backbone to rebuild the system from the ground up, rather than continuing to put band aides on and modify a system that wasn’t built for our age in the first place. We will continue to have a broken educational system.
JULIE: Okay, I agree with you. Thank you. My second question is about world peace. So according to you, what could be the three actions human beings could do to make this world a better place to live?
DAVID GRUDER: The first and most important action is ‘be the change, ‘become the change you want to see in the world’, just as Mahatma Gandhi said. The second change is to be that change in your closest relationships. Learn how to be authentic and loving and a person of your word, all at the same time, in your closest relationships. Learn how to master the art of collaboration, especially when things are difficult. And the third is ‘dare to believe that a person, just as Margaret Meade once said “a person can make a difference because in fact the only way the world has changed is because of individuals who dared to believe that they could make a difference and make sure that the way that you make a difference in the world is a complete match with the way that you were called to have positive impact on the world, not the way that somebody else thinks you ought to do it’. Change needs to happen on this planet on so many different levels that there is room for every single one of us to have positive impact in a way that matches our calling in life, not someone else’s. That’s for them to do. We need all of us following our calling so that collectively we make the change that we made together.
JULIE: Yes, and do you know how to do, to hear, to find, to have clarity on what is our calling?
DAVID GRUDER: Yeah, it starts with a vision of the world that we that we have most wanted to live in that we are not living in yet. So, the old saying from Steven Kavi, beginning with the end in mind is almost correct. It really begins with the best end in mind and I learned that from a fellow by the name of Bruce Wright. He’s quite correct about that and when we have that vision of the world we most want to live in, then we ask ourselves “where is the intersection between our talent and our passion? and what people already want that can make the biggest difference in moving us in the direction of the world we want to live in, and when we have clarity about that answer, we have our calling.”
JULIE: Yes, thank you very much.
DAVID GRUDER: That’s the short version.
JULIE: And I think it will help. It’s a great answer. Thank you.
DAVID GRUDER: You’re welcome.
DAVID LAROCHE: It’s great. I have 3 short questions. Yeah, I have three short questions, three short questions. It’s okay for you?
DAVID GRUDER: Yes.
DAVID LAROCHE: Yeah, short questions.
DAVID GRUDER: Okay. They may be short questions but you’ve already learnt I don’t give short answers.
DAVID LAROCHE: Yeah, because the goal is to do short answers.
DAVID GRUDER: Okay, I will give you short answers.
DAVID LAROCHE: Yeah, according to you what could be the life lessons you would like to share with youth, and you have two minutes. What can be the life lessons you would like to share with youth.
DAVID GRUDER: That I would like to share with youth.
DAVID LAROCHE: Yeah, and you have two minutes.
DAVID GRUDER: Good. The first and most important life lesson from me is ‘be teachable’. Have a teachable spirit. It’s so important to combine your ability to trust what you know in your deepest self with the willingness to be impacted in positive ways by the world around you. Have a teachable spirit. The second is ‘keep your cup full’. In other words do what you need to do in order to have all of your life energy available to you in each moment of each day. Change the way you live your life so that you have a full cup throughout your day, and the third is what we were talking about earlier. Learn to be masterful at harvesting precious deep gifts from undesired unacceptable life experiences.
DAVID LAROCHE: Great. It’s great. Thank you very much. I have a question. It is a weird question. The goal is to do very funny videos and my question will be how to become unhappy. Okay?
DAVID GRUDER: How to become unhappy?
DAVID LAROCHE: Yeah. Are you ready? So, David, I have a third question for you. We were talking about happiness, integrity. I’m fed up about that, and do you have some advices, keys, something I can do today not tomorrow, today to become unhappy in this life.
DAVID GRUDER: Yes, absolutely. So repeat to yourself over and over and over again ‘nothing funny ever happens to me’, nothing funny ever happens to me’, nothing funny ever happens to me’. Just keep repeating that to yourself.
DAVID LAROCHE: Great! So is this the first step? Do you have something else?
DAVID GRUDER: That’s all you need.
DAVID LAROCHE: Okay. I have to repeat to myself bad things or only this sentence?
DAVID GRUDER: Nothing funny ever happens to me.
DAVID LAROCHE: Okay.
DAVID GRUDER: Just that one statement. Just keep repeating it over and over again. And eventually you’ll believe it.
DAVID LAROCHE: Okay. Great! Thank you very much David. I will try that. Right, my last question it is without me and the same short video, short answers. According to you what could be the key factors of success?
DAVID GRUDER: The key factors of success as I’ve experienced them are living in integrity with all three of my core aspects of myself – being authentic, feeling connected with others, and having positive influence in the world, that’s the first part, ‘three dimensional happiness’. The second is vertical integrity where I have alignment among my values, my vision, my mission, my goals, and my ways being in the world, my career, and my personal life and the third is persistent skills where I develop the skills that I need and use them persistently preferably with mentoring in order to bring about that vertical alignment in my life and that three dimensional happiness that I just described.
DAVID LAROCHE: Great! I would love to have a testimonial from you. You prefer I ask you something or I can let you to talk. My name is David. You know David Laroche, and the goal is just to say what you think about David Laroche.
DAVID GRUDER: Okay.
DAVID LAROCHE: You prefer I let you?
DAVID GRUDER: Sure, we can try it that way first and if you don’t like it we’ll try the other way.
DAVID LAROCHE: Okay, perfect. You can start.
DAVID GRUDER: You know David Laroche is somebody who I wish I was more like when I was his age. He has done so much with his life already and has done something that I importantly didn’t do, which is that he has become absolutely passionate about learning directly from the people in the whole world that he most respects and regards, about their secrets of life, their secrets of success, their secrets of happiness. So that he can be more efficient and more effective at reaching his goals at an early point in his life than I did in my life and I have huge regard and respect for his passion, commitment, and willingness to do that not only for himself, but for all of the youth and adults as well that he is serving in the process of serving himself.
DAVID LAROCHE: Wow! It was great! It was great! We no need to do anything else. Great! I can take a picture of you?
DAVID GRUDER : It’s funny, how the French comes back and when I’m speaking, and these words come out of my mouth.
DAVID GRUDER: I have to put the photo. Great! two seconds. Okay, are you ready? Another one. Great! Do you take your picture also?
DAVID GRUDER: Great!
JULIE: Okay, one, two, three. No.
DAVID GRUDER: Show me the flash.
JULIE: It’s nice without flashing.
DAVID LAROCHE: Okay, yes, try without. It’s okay? Perfect. I will send you the picture.
DAVID GRUDER: Thank you, and when you have the video send me the link.
DAVID LAROCHE: Yeah. I think your audience will love what we did.
DAVID GRUDER: Yeah, looking forward to seeing it.
DAVID LAROCHE: Yeah, it’s right.
DAVID GRUDER: I figure you will do a lot of editing.
DAVID LAROCHE: Yeah, a lot of work.
DAVID GRUDER: Sorry.
DAVID LAROCHE: No, it’s okay. It was perfect. Thank you very much and it’s amazing for me because you were – your first message for youth is to be teachable and I’m proud of the fact I was teachable in this interview.
DAVID GRUDER: So how much longer you would be been staying in San Diego?
DAVID LAROCHE: Eight days.
DAVID GRUDER: Eight more days?
JULIE: Four weeks.
DAVID GRUDER: And who else are you going to interview?
DAVID LAROCHE: Tomorrow Darren Hardy.