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– [David] I'm very glad to do a new video with you, Lee. You are Lee Wolak. We are just finishing your seminar so we take a little bit of off time to share inspiration. Just a little bit, can you introduce you, who you are and what you do? And to be able to know who you are.
– [Lee] Yeah, my name is Lee Wolak and I'm the senior and founder minister of the Agape Center for Spiritual Living in Fresco, Texas. I was a typical American, went through the American dream, went through the corporate ladder all the way up to the level of a vice president. Found at that time it wasn't my calling and I found my inner soul, my inner being and I decided it was time to go back to school and I went back to school at the age of 54, got a Master's degree in Consciousness Studies and then became a minister. And then in 2009, I started the Agape Center for Spiritual Living and it's my heart's dream right now. I'm married and got a couple of boys.
– Yeah. I have many questions to ask you just before to focus on the couple. I would love to know because a lot of people are struggling to find their purpose. According to you, how can we do to find our purpose?
– I think John Demartini is the greatest example when he says, “Know your values.” I spent a lot of time in my job asking people, “What do you value? What turns you on? What really juices you?” They don't know. So they aimlessly float through life. I found that when I understood what my values are, my top five then I'm able to focus all of my attention on that and nothing else distracts me. And then I'm living into my passion.
– And you know some people, they understand the principle of the value but they are struggling to say, “Is it my value or is it that?” [[00:02:04]] How do we know our values?
– Well, I think the best way is to see what does your heart tell you?
– I use heart math at times and I ask myself to question and I say, “What does my heart want to do?” And I listen to my heart and not my mind because my mind will rationalize, my mind is influenced by all the things my parents have ever told me, what society is telling me. And so that's not Lee. But my heart, when I say, “Do you want to be a minister?” My heart said, “yes.” Do you want to have your own center? My heart said, “yes.” I could remember when I was 20 years old and I met my wife and three months into the relationship I said, “Do I want to marry her?” My heart said, “yes.” Now that was against everything a man of 20 would have wanted to do; you didn't want to get married at 20. You wanted to play the field. But my heart said yes and I just followed that.
– Okay. Some people, they have many things they love. They say, “I would love to be an actor, I would love to be an entrepreneur,” they have many dreams. So it's like the heart are connected to different things and they are struggling to make a choice and say that, “I have to start with that now.” What do you advice?
– One step at a time. Just start moving in the direction. It doesn't matter which one you choose, but if you're moving in the direction of it, realize that life never ends. It's a constant journey. And as long as you're moving in the direction of what you want, everything comes into play. I think one of John's favorite affirmations that I've adopted is the idea that “I'm always in the right place at the right time to meet the right people to further my vision.” And when you embody that, you just automatically know the right people, everything is going to come into place and it does.
– Yeah. We are learning together the work of John. He's talking a lot about the vision. [[00:04:00]] So what do you write down if you have many things you want to do about your vision? For example, let's say that I want to write who I will be in one year and what I will do in one year but I have many possibilities and I don't know how to choose. How can I do that?
– I would say as opposed to write, for me, what do I want to feel? What do I want to feel in one year? And how can I multiply that feeling? Understanding that I'm going to be growing into it. And then as I'm going along and I'm putting down what's my goal for the year, will the feeling allow me to go and get that goal? Now if I don't hit that goal, I don't get upset because I've gone all the time with the feeling I've chosen. And I think we've gotten to the idea where we want to accomplish something material but we forget it's the journey and that journey is about feeling and being present in every moment. And if I'm present like I'm present with you as we're talking right now, nothing in the world matters. I am living my joy right at this moment.
– Yeah, and how do you do that? Because some people they understand that it's important to be present, they understand that we can feel gratitude, but they are like blocked by their emotion. For example, let's imagine that someone is looking at us, what do you advice to train yourself to be present?
– The first thing I would tell the person is you've got to get a meditation practice. I said, “One of the things that happens, meditation allows you to slow the mind down,” and I like to teach it buys you three seconds. So that if something happens in your life and you've been meditating, you've got three seconds. So instead of reacting, you respond. And so I've come up with a simple mediation that's very easy. I do four minutes of alternate nostril breathing.
– Can you show?
– Alternate nostril breathing is I simply take my finger cover one nostril, [[00:06:01]] I breathe in for about six seconds, I hold it, I cover the other nostril and I release. Now I breathe in.
– Four minutes?
– Yes. Back and forth, four minutes. You're breathing in one nostril, breathing out the other. Breathing in and breathing out the other. What that does, you'll notice that any time of the day, one nostril is always more dominant than the other and by doing the alternate nostril, you become centered.
– You are balancing.
– You're balancing, exactly. And then once you balanced, I go through and I do a simple mantra for 10 minutes. One is, “I am not my body, I have a body. I am not my mind, I have a mind.” And I just repeat that over and over because what I'm trying to do is I'm trying to understand within my own being that this body and this mind that I'm thinking through is not all of me, but there's a higher power and presence, a sole presence that I am. And when I understand that, I realize that from my soul, I create my mind and body. So this is the power, not my mind and body. So I'm detaching from the physical senses and I'm putting that three seconds of possibility there so that my soul chooses, my soul is actually the observer. And my mind and body are the play that I'm creating. And so when I do that for 10 minutes, I really start to put who's in charge of my life. Then after that, I go through another one, I go “I live in gratitude and I see the perfection of all life.” So for 10 minutes, I'm there thinking about everything I've experienced. I allowed gratitude in my heart to open and I'm grateful for everything, not just the good but everything because everything is what's causing me to be a greater person. And in that, I'm also again seeing the balance of life. And then after that 10 minutes, I sit in silence and I listen. [[00:08:00]]
– Yeah. And in that moment, something may come, sometimes incredible insights come, or maybe just…
– So you are not trying to avoid your thinking. So you let the process.
– I just let the process but I'm not attached to whatever thought comes in. I think the key thing where people mess up is that they become attached to the thought and they start building another thought and then another thought on it. No, when that thought comes in, don't be attached to it. Just let it go by, just observe it, just observe those thoughts going by. This way, it's like life, when things come to you, you observe them, you're not reacting, you're not invested in them. So, the mind use of meditation is simply a smaller way of conditioning yourself to live in life every day.
– It's great. It is a great introduction for the next topic. Let's talk about your couple because you are married for 46?
– Forty-two and a half years.
– Forty-two and a half years, and what is your secret to do that?
– Well, the first thing is, I'll share it with you, I got married at the age of 21 and people ask me, “Well, why did you marry this woman? Why did you marry Jean?” And I look at them and say, “It was for lust.” There was no other thing. I'm a 20 year old man, 21 years and I'm getting married. She was a beautiful woman. She made me feel good and it was purely lustful. The blessing was, my soul, my inner being saw good qualities in her. And so what I found is relationship is a journey. And I'm not going to say there's not rocks in the middle of the road, there are. I think at year seven and eight, I went through that thing where, “Should I be in this relationship? Is there someone better than me?” And I remember my mother saying, “Ask this question: Will anyone else give you as much freedom as your wife? And will anyone else be a better mother to the children you desire to have?” And when I just paused and I reflected on it, I realized that my greatest value was freedom. [[00:10:03]] And yet I still wanted to be a father. That was my second highest value at that time. And I looked at them and I said, “Jean meets all of those.” So I canceled that out and then we rebuilt our relationship. I think what really happened is once you understand your values, you have to fall in love with yourself. The key to any relationship is to fully fall in love with yourself because until you fall in love with yourself, you cannot fall in love with another. And the only way we can do that, because people have missed ideas of what this thing of love is. What I consider love is, love is when you accept yourself as you are. You do not judge yourself. You don't beat yourself up. You don't want to be like something else, you want to be totally, authentically yourself. But you've also taken the time to identify your values and you've committed your life to something magnificent that is going to be expanding and growing. So inside, everything you do is about supporting yourself and growing yourself to be the highest you. Once you become that, and that's what it is, you become an energy. When you start doing these things, doing affirmations, walking your talk, living it, meditating on it, visualizing it, forgiving yourself, you do all of these things you create an energy that exudes from you. And that energy that you exude attracts to you. That's how you create your relationship with others. And then once that person comes into your life, you have to do exactly what you've done with yourself and that is, you have to accept your partner as they are, you're not in judgment of them, you're learning what their values are so you can support and help grow them. I'd like to throw this in when you're in a couple. It's important, support and growth. Those are important things, accept them, those are important things. You've got to have fun. [[00:11:59]] You've got to laugh, you've got to be spontaneous. You're here to experience life together, not to go through the drudgeries, “Oh, I've got to sort this and I got to do this.” No, have fun, laugh your butt off. Do crazy things. Go to an amusement park, get on a roller coaster and go screaming with your hands in the air like a little girl. And it's the greatest spiritual practice. I will share with you then, when we're working with a partner, you have an idea of what your partner is, what you want. And I would say, “What is it you most desire from that partner? What is it that you need the most?” And then ask them that, “What do they need back from you?” And once you have that, form some agreements. So my wife and I have five agreements. The first one is that when we tell our partner that we desire to be first, they come first no matter what. So in any situation, if Jean says to me, “Lee, I want to be first today.” Whatever she wants, she comes first, or I do the same back to her. So that's number one. Number two is we always ask for what we want when we want it, so there's no hidden agenda. I mean, I always know what she wants because she tells me. If she doesn't tell me I don't have to make any assumptions. There's no guessing games. The third one is we have an agreement that we're going to raise children together and how we're going to raise those children. The fourth one is, how are we going to handle money? Because that's an important thing, that's one of the major things that couples face. How are we going to deal with money? Let's come to an agreement that we're going to work, in a framework that can be changed but for right now, this is our agreement. And the fifth one is, we're only going to have physical relations with each other. You see, once you've come to those agreements which Jean and I have for ourselves and everyone's will be different so these are not the set ones, everyone will come to their own, now you've got freedom because I can do anything anywhere as long as I honor those five agreements. [[00:13:58]] I can be with anyone, do anything as long as I'm honoring those five agreements, that's freedom. So whenever I'm doing something, I never regret Jean because I've committed to her and the relationship and it's based on these things. And then again, fun. You've got to have fun.
– Okay, two questions. First one is how do you find…I can see some couple they are together from 10 years, 20 years, 30 years and they are struggling to find fun because they believe they know perfectly their husband or wife. How do you find fun after 20 years?
– Start all over. You go to your partner, you say “Let's wipe the slate clean. Let's start the whole thing over. We've got a relationship, we've got a comfort level with each other, let's rediscover ourselves. So we've been together for 20 years, let's go on a date.” Set up a date where you're going to a nice dinner, just the two of you, or going to the park, wherever it is and sit down and you sit down, “Okay, tell me everything about yourself. Tell me what your dreams are right now. Tell me what you're frustrated. Tell me everything about yourself.” And then you take your turn and you share with them. And then you sort of say now, “How can we be together and support? How can I support you? I think one of the greatest lessons my sons have taught me is that I used to use the word, “How can I help you?” And I found that was a very disempowering word. I remember when I was dealing with one of my boys and I said, “How can I support you?” It changed our relationship forever because when you're supporting someone, you're saying “I see that you have the power, I see that you have it in you. I'm just going to be there and allow you to be your magnificence.” And so as a couple, when you're exploring again, you start to say, [[00:16:01]] “Okay, how can I support you?” And you can't judge it, you're supporting them. You're not going to control them. You're not giving them advice, you're supporting them. And the next thing, you ask them, “What is it that you really want to do that's fun? What haven't we done?” Now in my relationship and I find in any relationship, one is more adventurous than the other. Well the adventurous one ought to ask the one who's not “Is there something we really haven't done?” because they may have something they've just not shared. But otherwise, then it's up to the one who's the creative one, go find something then say, “Come with me. We're going to have a surprise.” And you just do it. And it just starts happening. So you're literally recreating the dating process where it's, infatuation, indifference, resentment. So you start infatuated, right? And after a while you become bored so you become a bit indifferent. And if that stays too long, you start getting resentful. What do you have to do then? You have to recreate it back to infatuation. And then you keep that creative process going so the relationship as you go down and then up and down then go up, the relationship is moving up, you see? It's not going flat, it's not going down it's actually moving up because you're not allowing yourself to disintegrate. I also like to think that if you have a line going in the direction of what you want, you can have points higher than or way lower than. I call that like a manic relationship where you go real high and then you go real low. If you're sensitive to what your dreams are and your goals are, you can go this high and this low and the highs and the lows are more balanced. And that makes the relationship go much easier. And for me I don't want a relationship that goes way to the high and then way to the low. I'd rather sort of have my relationship… [[00:18:02]] I forgot this, this is so good. My relationship is my home base. For me, this is my sacred space from which I can go no matter what feel safe, feel loved, feel supported, be so authentically me that I get recharged and I'm able to go in the world and do the work that I do.
– I also will say that with a couple, the bedroom has two things that you do in it, three things. You sleep, you affirm your love, and you have physical gratification with your partner. There should be no TV, there should never be an argument, there should never be serious discussions about anything other than your connection with that partner. It becomes a sacred place and in that sacred place, you know that when you enter that room, you've created that energy and that energy is always there. So as you walk in, everything else falls away.
– So, let's imagine that you start to have a kind of conflict in the bedroom, you leave?
– You leave the bedroom because you've got an agreement, the bedroom is sacred.
– Okay. A lot of my clients who tell me, “Yes, I understand, David but my husband or my wife is not like me. He's not involved in the self-help world and he doesn't want to speak like me. He doesn't want to ask questions.” And what I understand in what you are saying that you are playing together the game like what we are doing with Julie. But what are your advice with someone who says, “I am married now 15 years and then at the beginning we were not doing that and I'm starting to do that but not my wife or not my husband.” What do you suggest? [[00:20:02]]
– I will probably say to them is that the relationship that you have today is a reflection of the person that you are, because if you go back to where I started, the person that you become puts out an energy and attracts to you. Well your partner is mirroring who you are. So I would say to that person, “Let's look at you and let's recreate you.” So I would say to that person, “You want a better relationship with your wife or your husband? You have to recreate yourself to be the person who would be living the relationship you want and as you start to do the work on yourself, that will cause change.” It can't do anything else. It will either cause change or that person will leave. But the whole idea is, always be focused on loving you. And that's not narcissistic, that's really about seeing the god-self, remembering the god-self, being the god-self, being non-judgmental, being authentic, being accepting, being of service.
– Okay, so what you mean is before to wonder if you have to leave the person or not, work on yourself and if it's the right person for them now, the person will change and you will feel it, and if it's not the case, the other person will leave?
– So you don't have to leave, it's what you mean?
– Yes. I will qualify what I said. If you are being abused, physically or deeply emotionally abused, get out. But if it's not that, it's just more like a boredom and things like that, things aren't just going right, work on yourself. Because no matter what, you win.
– Okay, when you were specifying about the fact that she or he can be abused, is it because all of that the change inside starts to reflect on the person? [[00:22:00]]
– Yes. No question about that. But why I'm saying that is if there's a possibility of harm to you, you want to get out. But if you don't feel that you're going to be harmed, you have to start saying, “Okay, if I feel I'm being verbally abused,” I don't believe physical abuse should ever enter into a relationship. But if it's verbal abuse, you have to say, “Why am I taking that personally? Because if I love myself, if I know who I am, it doesn't matter what anyone else says. But if I'm not self-loving, and that person says something and I'm hurt…
– You will be attached.
– I'm attached.
– Yeah. So what you say is what you are feeling and you attachment about what the person is saying to you is a kind of indicator, or a signal? How do you say? Can I say indicator?
– Is an indicator of who you are today and what you can improve?
– Yes, always. And the great thing is, you're never going to get it done. So you can't get it wrong. So you just keep going everyday. And when you make a mistake, “Oh, well. Next move.” So it's always a progression, it never stops. And it requires persistence and consistency. That's where most people fail, whether it's in business, whether it's in physical fitness, whether it's making money. People know what to do but they're not persistent and consistent with their actions.
– Okay. How do you manage and what do you advice to manage fantasy because I imagine that in 42 years, you met some women. How do you manage fantasy about the fact that you are meeting a woman and you don't know her and she can look as perfect in the fantasy because you know your wife from maybe 20 years, how did you manage that and what do you advice? [[00:24:04]]
– Well, as a man I can only speak from a man's perspective, I can't speak from a woman's. But from a man's perspective, yes you're going to look and yes it's going to be exciting. And I remember when I got married, my wife said to me, she said, “Lee I don't care where you go, where you get your appetite as long as you come home for dinner.” So yes you're going to look, but you realize that's just the flesh. That's just the being, you don't know what that person is but you know with your wife you have a deep connection, you see? And it goes back to what your agreement, you made an agreement that you would have physical relations with that person. And let's take it even further, a lot of times if you're looking and you're getting serious about taking an action, it means something's not right at home. And people have to then reevaluate what is their sex values? What are their values on sex? I get a lot of these questions as a minister. I have women come to me talk to me, “I wish I could have more.” I've got men coming to me say, “I wish I could have more.” And I find that what happens is people don't ask. They don't simply look at their partners and say, “I'd like to increase my sex life.” What would that look like for you? How can we as a couple become more intimate? I was asked this question by a group of ministers before I became one. And they said, “What would you tell someone about this idea of sex?” And I said, “I would probably say it like this, is there a physical act between two people that gives you greater physical pleasure than the union of the body?” Well, no. When you have sex with a partner, are you not liking them? You're really not mad at them, you really like them. After you've had sex, how do you feel? Is the act of physical union in sex with someone you love, is that as close to spirituality as you can get on the human plane? Yeah, because it's creative energy. [[00:26:00]] How do you sleep after you have sex? Great. How do you wake up after sex? Great. So the question I ask them is “Why wouldn't you do that every day?” I'm not saying it's the right answer, but it's an answer that seems to work for me. And I think a lot of times people get bored but what they don't understand is there's always a greater joy you can experience with your partner if you open up to it. It can be as simple as this: looking into your partner's eyes while you're making love to them, because not only have you opened up your physical body, but your souls are connected through the eyes. There's no deeper, deeper connection than two humans can have.
– It's great. I have just two last questions. One, I would love to know what do you think for example, let's imagine that John is talking a lot about his couple and the fact that he's not doing a lot of sex in his life. Let's imagine that his wife wants to have sex maybe daily and it can be hard with someone who, like John. So what do you think?
– I think then that individual would have to go to their partner and have a discussion. They'd have to ask for what they want when they wanted it. Now, if that's not in the values of one person, that they don't desire that, then they have to decide where is that on my value? So if that woman had that desire to have sex and it was like, let's say a one or two priority in their life, and on the other person, it's not even a top five, then she may have to say, “You know, if we can't change this, then maybe we have to have a different relationship.”
– You have to delegate.
– It's a possibility. It depends what are the two people willing to commit to. I don't know that there's a right way or wrong way.
– But they have to speak.
– They have to find a way that they can be together where both of their needs are being met. [[00:28:02]]
– So you are saying that you don't have to, how do you say in English? You don't have to…
– Be monogamous?
– Avoid your desire.
– No, you don't have to avoid your desire, you have to speak your desire and ask your partner for it and then you make a decision. Is this going to work for me or not?
– And a lot of time in couple for example, there is the frontier between desire and doing something to feel that I'm an important person is narrow. What I mean is, I have a client in France and sometimes he wants to have sex not for the sex itself but because when he have sex for him it's like “I am loved by her.” You know what I mean? So maybe you need less sex if you are loving yourself.
– Exactly. Who was it? Napoleon Hill in “Think And Grow Rich” said, all of these people that he interviewed that were the wealthiest, wealthiest, wealthiest people in the world transmuted that sexual desire when they wanted to and put it into what they create. Because sexual energy is that creative energy. And if you're self-loving, and you have a partner and you have an agreement, well let's say it's once a week. Well, on those other six days, channel that energy into your creativity, into those things that matter the most. You won't miss the physical then.
– Okay. I love the book “Think and Grow Rich.” Can you explain how we can transmute sexual energy for people? Let's imagine that someone they don't know at all the work of…
– Napoleon Hill. [[00:30:00]]
– Napoleon Hill and he's discovering the self-help world and he just understand, “I have to transmute my sexual energy.” How can you explain that?
– I would probably say if there is someone who loves, let's say his job is to build video games. And he really gets in that. I would say “Put your energy into more creativity and building video games. Really immerse yourself into something that really excites you and brings you joy.” There are things for me, it could be going for a hike up a mountain. Going and walking on the beach.
– So what it means is investing your time, your energy on something you love.
– And it will transmute itself?
– Exactly, exactly.
– Okay. So for example, the person wants to have sex and he can replace it with something he loves in his highest value?
– Because the key thing is to build the idea that sexual energy is not just sex energy, it's creative energy. Now, you get to be the one who chooses where you put it and how you use it. And see in that way you're not depriving this but you're saying, “I've got this creative energy over here. Now I'm going to use it for this today.” Now, tomorrow I might use it with my partner. And then use what's left over for this. But today I'm taking all of that energy and I'm putting it into this thing, what I love.
– My last question is for you what is the difference, not what is the difference. I would love to hear you about what you think between having sex and making love? Do you see what I mean? And in the 42-year relationship, what do you advice?
– I'll say there are days when I make love to my wife, there are days when we just have sex. Making love for me is the idea that when I'm there, I'm fully present with my partner. [[00:32:00]] I don't see anything else. Nothing else is on my mind. And my total purpose is for her to feel good. It has nothing to do with me. I am actually in a way of being of service to her. And so my thing is let's lift her energy as high as we can, be so present with her so that together we have the most phenomenal experience. That to me is making love. But also making love is sitting across from the dinner table, looking her in the eye and just simply seeing her beauty. Making love to me is also watching her create a phenomenal dinner or watching how she goes and does her job and excels in her job. Watching her just simply polish her own nails or whatever. It's simply making love is just seeing her as perfect.
– Yes. So your last question. I have a lot of questions. I had a different discussion with men, especially in my example. And they told me that they don't see, physically I mean, they don't see physically their wife the same way they saw her the first day. And it was like a conversation because they were conscious and they were aware about the difference. But what is your secret to be able to see the beauty of your wife after 42 years?
– It's how you use your mind. So you can imagine with 42 years of marriage, we don't look the way we looked when we were young.
– I can imagine.
– I tend to be more physically conscious. I weigh the same thing I weighed when I was 20. I've not really changed other than my body does look a little different because gravity does do some things to it. My wife has had fluctuations. So I'm fully aware of where you're going on this. [[00:34:01]] And so my wife when I met her would look incredible in a bikini, incredible. Looked a lot like Julie, a lot like Julie, not quite as long hair but a lot like her. Today my wife is not the same. By standards, if I were young, I would not look at her. But the key thing is it's not about what she looks like, it's who she is and when she's with me, what is her presence? Because from the male point of view, when you're making love, it doesn't matter whether you're big or small, short or tall, you're making love. Close your eyes and be present. And when you're present, you're not judging. When you're not judging, you won't have this problem.
– Okay. It's a great end. Do you have some things to share?
– I'm good. I just want to tell people life is supposed to be fun. Understand that you're going to have ups and downs and accept them. But set your goal, really be clear on your goal and just move at it. Just go for it. You've got nothing to lose. We're here to live and to experience this life.
– Great. How can people follow you?
– They can look up Lee Wolak, W-O-L-A-K. They can go to YouTube, they can go the web and find me. Or they can go to Agape, A-G-A-P-E, CSL.com. And if they go there, they'll find like 250 videos on every topic you can imagine. They can sign up and get a daily thought that I write every morning and know that I'm there to help them no matter how that might be.
– Great. Thank you very much.
– Thank you.
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