David Laroche : So hello I am with the new amazing guest and we will do an amazing interview, we will enjoy. I am with Kathlyn Hendricks director of training in The Hendricks Institute. So we will discover how to use body intelligence and to do conscious living. She's with me, you will love her so follow this interview. Hello Katie.
Katie Hendricks : Hello. Pleasure.
David Laroche : How are you today?
Katie Hendricks : I am very happy and a little dry. We haven't had much rain here in Southern California so we're all feeling it. We're doing rain dances trying to get it to rain here.
David Laroche : I love the weather. Heat, wet.
Katie Hendricks : Well, the weather is great and you know the downside of that is that sometimes we get an imbalance of not getting enough moisture.
David Laroche : Okay, so go to France.
Katie Hendricks : Right, I know there's no problem there.
David Laroche : I would love to let you introduce yourself, who are you and what is your journey?
Katie Hendricks : Oh golly, I would say that I've been fascinated with the language of the body since I was a little girl and I could always tell what was going on not by what people were saying to me but what they were doing and what I was seeing in their bodies and I could see energy from a very early age but it was very unnerving for my family to have a little girl be seeing what was going on in the family and understanding people's feelings. And so I kind of dialed it down a little bit until…
David Laroche : When you say young what age?
Katie Hendricks : Oh, from the time I was for really as long as I can remember but certainly by the time I was four.
David Laroche : Wow, so it was a kind of a gift?
Katie Hendricks : Yes, it was a gift but it was one that wasn't very well understood because I grew up with parents who had grown up in the Midwest of our country which is very traditional and conservative and so one of the things my mother used to say to me is, “I don't know where you came from.” You know I was one of those which I think a lot of people who are creative or who don't kind of follow the path of their tribe get that kind of feedback. So what really saved me when I was in the fourth grade, I had been a really restless and I was a fidgety and today I would have been diagnosed with ADHD but my fourth grade teacher Mrs. Morgan saw that I was a fidgety and she said, “You can sit in the back of the room and just fidget as much as you want to.” And I went overnight from being a C student to being A student. And it was my first real introduction to the power of kinesthetic learning. There were different learning channels that having people sit still and be quiet to learn was absolutely the worst thing in the world for me and so…
David Laroche : As for you for appellative children?
Katie Hendricks : And for all the children because we first learn through our bodies. We don't learn through our heads. We learn through the intelligence of our body so I've been really passionate about that, I became a dance movement therapist which is a whole other long story. When I was about 19 and have been really looking at what's the meaning of movement? What's the meaning of what's going on in the rest of our bodies and how can that inform our lives and our relationships. And so for example, one of the big things that I have really been exploring is what I call the dance of relationship that there are two steps in the dance of relationship. One is getting closer, what I call the urge to merge and the other is getting separate, the urge to individuate. And we both have both of those pulsations. And so the dance of relationship is it looks like it should be just this nice kind of minuet where you both…
David Laroche : Like the waves in the water.
Katie Hendricks : Like the waves in the water but it's really much more like when the waves hit the break water and you've got different rhythms going on and one person wants to get close and the other person doesn't or and then you get offended and then you get into this house or one person tries to control the other, so the dance really understanding from your body, do I want to get close now or do I want to get separate? That's a really fascinating exploration for people and it's a dynamic that goes on through your whole life and through the whole life of the relationship. But it makes everything really so interesting when you're including your whole body because then it's all about discovery.
David Laroche : Yeah, it's right. And so it's a powerful tool to empower relationship?
Katie Hendricks : And relationship with yourself as well. So it's not just a relationship with another but really listening to what are my body signals telling me. Do I need a drink of water?
David Laroche : Is it developing intuition?
Katie Hendricks : I think it comes before developing intuition because the first thing is being able to notice yourself with curiosity. Most people notice themselves with what's wrong or what's the problem or what's wrong with you? There's a kind of critical voice in there that's going, “Really, are you going to eat all that or you know you should be nicer or don't raise your voice or.” That's going on for most people so when you learn how to notice yourself with curiosity your body really responds to that. It's like opening a door way to real magic where your body can let you know… I regularly now when I'm working with someone I have images that arise that are perfect for them that I don't have to think about or are so I just was really seeing the color blue. Now oh that was my favorite sweater when I was a kid and I lost it in so that really makes it a difference for people to access intuition because intuition comes when you're quiet and when you're open inside. It doesn't come when you're yelling at yourself or being critical. So I think as you're developing your curiosity about your inner life that intuition is one of the by-products that you get more in sync with life and more in just more in the flow. You're in the right place at the right time and you meet people and things occur that are really most beneficial.
David Laroche : That's great. I love that.
Katie Hendricks : Yeah. I do too.
David Laroche : And you know there a lot of people who works a lot with the head and how do you help someone who say, “I don't feel anything every time in my head, in my mental.” How do you help someone like that to connect with his own body?
Katie Hendricks : Well, there are a couple of different ways to do that so when someone says I don't feel anything, there's something that they're referencing. So I will sometimes ask people, “Where is the edge of where you do feel something?” And it might even be here, it might be in their jaw or around their mouth or the back of their neck but they feel something and then suddenly they don't feel something and so having them give attention to the edge of where they feel something and then kind of stepping over into the unknown…
David Laroche : Do you start every time from the head to the bottom?
Katie Hendricks : For people who are heady yes because that's where they're living.
David Laroche : They use their ear.
Katie Hendricks : All of that really. There are a lot of specific techniques that you can use but what it all of that is really based on is that people are afraid. I've become really obsessed over the last year or so with helping people to break through the fear trance that most people are in and when people are in their heads, they think that that's how they're going to be best able to control life. They get kind of ahead of themselves and their adrenaline run and it makes people very stressed. It ruins their creativity and it makes their interactions with others much more difficult. So I have developed a whole, I have a whole video and hallway of people doing what I call fear meters, recognizing the four expressions of fear. And very often when people have gone heady, they're actually doing a flee. The expression of fear we know fight, flight, freeze and faint. They're actually fleeing into their heads, they get analytical. They're figuring it out or they want to combat with you but it's really run by fear and the moment that people realize, “Oh I just fled. Oh I can do there are some actual movements you can do with your body the one…”
David Laroche : Can you show one of that…
Katie Hendricks : I absolutely was going to show you. So fight, when people do fight, they look like they're people can get an intellectual argument it's like, “Well, where's your evidence for that?” And it looks like they're angry but they're actually scared but the fear meter for fight is oozing. So let yourself just ooze for a moment particularly in your shoulders because that's where people hold a lot and then if you add a little breath to that since you're not breathing so if you breathe…
David Laroche : So like that?
Katie Hendricks : Yeah or any kind of oozing. And so oozing. No it doesn't have to be precise. It's really more the quality of oozing. So notice you can't fight when you're oozing.
David Laroche : And do you breathe with your nose?
Katie Hendricks : Yeah, the idea is really to open up your breathing to like relax your belly when you're breathing because that then connects you to your body. So if you're oozing and then starting to breathe…
David Laroche : Do you advise to close the eyes?
Katie Hendricks : Maybe at first so that people can really give attention to themselves and they're not comparing themselves with others. So that's one of them and then when people flee the move for that is what we call Sumo. And sumo is where you know sumo wrestlers in Japan, so Sumo is where you get really down in your body. And it's impossible to flee when you're doing Sumo. And then the third one is freeze. People, we know they literally freeze and they stop breathing and they go like, “It's a deer in the headlights move.” And when people are frozen like that you can't just say, “Well, just relax. It's okay.” Because people walk. They will not relax they'll get even more frozen but you can say I've always found that people can wiggle their fingers and toes. So when they begin wiggling their fingers and toes, they begin to thaw out and then they can take their wiggling off through them so that they get unfrozen.
David Laroche : So you start with them seeing accessible?
Katie Hendricks : Yes.
David Laroche : And you say that's accessible?
Katie Hendricks : Accessible, yes. So we would start with what I do is I start with what is the person actually doing and then I usually have them do it a little bit more rather than stop that because they're already saying that to themselves you know stop that. So if the person is frozen, I'll have them do it a little more and then wiggle.
David Laroche : So you can ask, “Can you move it a bit your… ?”
Katie Hendricks : Oh well wiggling is just simply because when you're frozen you literally cannot feel yourself but when you wiggle that's a wiggle and then that's a wiggle and that's a wiggle.
David Laroche : I did under XXX.
Katie Hendricks : Certainly, yeah. Thanks for asking. And then the fourth one that most people don't associate with fear is fainting. And most people don't just you know fall over faint but they get kind of drained or have a moment where they go stupid. You know there's kind of ha. And what it is the fear has just drained your energy away just like animals when they're really
really afraid they they'll play dead. They'll play possum. So we do that too when we get really scared because we just go stupid. And the move for that I call welcoming so that you're actually…
David Laroche : Like that?
Katie Hendricks : Welcoming. You welcome and usually come in and actually touch your heart or touch your belly because then you go, “Oh here I am. Oh here I am.”
David Laroche : You are advised to say that? Here I am?
Katie Hendricks : Well, here I am or yeah and taking a breath that even just movement begins then to break up and then it turns fear into flow. And then from flow you can add more things but if you are in fear, nothing that anybody tells you is really going to make any difference. So we always apply it like take a problem that you're working on in and then see what your strategy is and then what would happen if you did took three breasts and changed your physical position or if you let yourself notice a body sensation and got curious about it. So all of our techniques which we have a hundred of them they are all experiential.
David Laroche : Great. And it is understandable Because you struggle with the lack of experience in the school.
Katie Hendricks : Yes. So it worked so well for me and then I noticed that so many other people were struggling with trying to learn, not really being able to use all of their intelligence, whether it was auditory or whether it was kinesthetic or whether it was a combination of visual and auditory and some people can actually kind of sniff out something that they want to do. So we're much more multisensory than our current educational system takes account of.
David Laroche : Yeah, I think so.
Katie Hendricks : Yeah.
David Laroche : So what have you advised to use to help them to connect with a true potential?
Katie Hendricks : Well, my sense is that when all of us when we're doing something that we most love to do, that's really a signal to guide us along the path. And for me how I know that it's something I love to do is that time just disappears. So I'm so involved in what I'm doing that not only does time disappear but I'm more energized after I've completed what I'm doing that I was when I started. So when I'm doing my trainings and seminars at the end of the day, I'm much more energized than I was when I got up in the morning and I also…
David Laroche : So it's a great indicator?
Katie Hendricks : It's a great indicator so for children your passion is going to be something that's easy for you. And you might even be saying to yourself, “Oh this doesn't everybody do this?” like for me it was you know I can tell what people are feeling. I know exactly what people are feeling. Doesn't everybody and no everybody does it but that was a skill of mine that is very easy and I think that all children have that and as we tune in to helping them find out what is it that I love to do where time disappears and it's really easy that that can be help guide towards what they might want to be learning, the skills that they might want to be developing. Because there are some people who are just born dancers, they're born musicians but there are a lot of us who got some skills in various areas and it's not quite so clear when we're first getting when we're first exploring and so having somebody who can really listen to you and also who keeps asking what is it that you really want. What do you really want and how can I support you in getting there and moving towards what you really want. That's really of assistance to children. Also I'm going to give you a book that I wrote many years ago called “The Moving Center” it's about movement activities for children of all ages that really helps them to open up to different themes and to explore those themes just right out of the book and so you can take that back to give to the foundation.
David Laroche : And you are saying something very important to help used to and add a little salt to know what is important for them and I have an example in mind. I know someone 21 years old maybe and he loves to do video editing. He wants to succeed in that and he did computing engineering and he's safe because he can have a salary. He can have his salary easily because he have five years of study and everybody all on him say…
Katie Hendricks : You should do that, you should do what's safe, right?
David Laroche : He believed in that. He believes Oh I should what is safe because what can I do if I fail with the editing and what do you want to say to parents because my main agenda is parent. My main agenda is more than 40 years old. And what are going to say to the users if we have someone who's listening to us…
Katie Hendricks : Well, often the problem is parents. So you know that well and it's not just them it's how they grew up and it goes back generations, it's something that we inherit, their culture and the way we do things and we actually call it the upper limit problem that you have a certain thermostat setting for how much positive energy and things going well you can handle. And when you exceed that or you exceed that in your family or in your community you do things unconsciously to bring yourself back to a more familiar level. And so like for example in Australia they have a saying called, “The tall poppy syndrome.” Don't be a tall poppy because what happens to a tall poppy. So there's the way that that gets communicated is safe you know play it safe. Don't stick out too much. Don't be too full of yourself. One of the things I heard from my mother growing up is boys don't like girls who are too smart and so it comes through in various ways but I think again the first thing I would do with parents is to get them really acquainted with their perception is coming from fear. So a couple of 1000 years ago Sophocles said, “When you are scared, everything rustles.”So when you're scared everything looks scary and you forget I am the one who is…right exactly. So we want to help them to really go, “Oh I'm scared. It's my fear it's not about you. I'm scared.” And that sorting out is really important you know I'm scared because I want you to do well and I don't want bad things to happen to you and it's my fear. So I want you to be prepared to do what you really want to do and that's really my job as a parent is to help you to succeed in a way that's really fulfilling for you because you're at the end of your life if you've become a computer engineer where your real passion is in video and the colors and the shapes of life unfolding and you go, “Well, yeah I was a really good computer engineer.” That's not going to be the most fulfilling ark of your life and it doesn't mean it has to be an all or nothing. The person could be a computer engineer and be taking classes in or really be at least spending part of his time doing what he really loves to do. And then…
David Laroche : Yeah. You have said something very interesting because when you read a book on success biography of people who did some great things, a lot of time it is 100% maybe 1000%. So how do you know your own cursor, our own measure?
Katie Hendricks : In the measure?
David Laroche : How do you know?
Katie Hendricks : Well, see that's a question that comes from the mind. So a whole other you know and that would come in percentages. So that part of the mind is about the size of a quarter and in our, what it would've been in French, when you're wondering, when you're curious, when you're breathing and particularly if you have some movement going in your body you're using your whole brain. That is your activating your all of your intelligence. So I want to make a decision. I want to use all of my resources, not 20% of them or 5% of them. So I like to invite people to use all kinds of different modalities to wonder. So for example to put music on and let themselves dance around or to be writing with their non-dominant hand or to be singing to a friend about what they want or taking a walk or sitting in the bath tub and you know just letting themselves float and wonder all of those things are just as valuable as putting on the what we call the pros and the cons you know the four things that would be good and the five things that would be bad about this. That's one thing that's helpful but it's a very small part of what is really going to allow you to make an important decision about your life and also if you start moving down a path you're not going to have a straight shot to where you're going. Just like an airplane gets to where it's going by being off course about 99% of the time. It goes off course and then corrects and off course and corrects. That's what you need to keep your eye on is how it is yes it's an evolution but it's also a recommitting. You get on the path by committing by saying, “Okay I'm doing this.” And then you stay on the path by making little adjustments of, “Oh I want to spend a little more time in this and or I want to add in this or oh I really like this or uh I hate that I'm not going to do that.” You drop that out and you keep moving toward what you want.
David Laroche : And it works if you're listening to some Body Signal?
Katie Hendricks : Yeah, you listen to all those…
David Laroche : You know when you are in the right direction or the wrong direction.
Katie Hendricks : Yeah. There's actually a way of knowing. I call it your inner yes and your inner no and people can learn to hear that and it's something that's usually quieter. It doesn't yell at you, it doesn't repeat. But it's more like a little nudge it's more just it's very subtle. If you listen to that you can keep guiding yourself by even if it doesn't make sense to your logical mind. There's a higher deeper wisdom that is really influencing you and it can create the most wonderful adventure. So just to give you when I was 20 years old, I was a sophomore in college. I was a new mother. I had just
gotten divorced. I had no money. And I mean who would know that I would end up where I am and I could have just said well I guess my life is over but I just kept really responding to…
David Laroche : This is the kind of faith in the life?
Katie Hendricks : Yes. Well, and also not just a faith but a continuing to participate in life to continue to move towards what I really wanted.
David Laroche : Constantly improving, right?
Katie Hendricks : Well, I don't know if I call it improving because that has a sense of there's something wrong with you no it'd be a constant what we call participating that you're playing full out. I'm hearing lives been…
David Laroche : Constant play.
Katie Hendricks : Constant play. Yeah. To me we actually teach people how to play through problems rather than working on them. And then it really helps in relationships because people think that relationships are really serious and hard work and you have to work hard on them and they actually don't work well if you work on them but they work really well if you play.
David Laroche : Yeah, like a baby.
Katie Hendricks : Yes, like a baby or a kid or a cat. We've got cats running around here I see lying under your suitcase.
David Laroche : Yeah, we lie on fast when we're playing, If we have to walk its boring.
Katie Hendricks : It's very boring and we turn off our intelligence but when we're using our whole bodies not only do we learn more quickly but we remember because we've got a we've been body dead and so we don't have to keep track of it, it's in there.
David Laroche : Great, I love what you're saying. We were talking about conscious loving, what is it and how we can develop that?
Katie Hendricks : Well, we have in France It's called Lamulucide [SP]. Our book “Conscious Loving” got translated gosh years ago because we wrote it quite a long time ago. We have a number of books on relationship but the best known is called “Conscious Loving” and it's really about being present in your relationship and being able to be authentic. We want people to be able to be real with each other. I think people really long to be able to be really themselves around somebody else. And but the culture, our culture and I think also I've seen this in my visits to France there's a whole facade about how you're supposed to be. If you want to get into a relationship there's a certain way that you're supposed to be in a certain way you're not supposed to be in when you're dating and then when you get into your relationship all of these assumptions really keep
you from being yourself.
David Laroche : And that's where the big fun happens is being open to another person. And so like for Gay and I we're just going into our 35th year together and we're having more fun than we've ever had. We're having better sex than we've ever had. We're both the younger, stronger and fitter than we've ever been. We're generating more creativity, more so it's not as if you know sort of peak and then, you know you sort of fall off and sort of snooze through your relationship. It can just keep getting better. So consciousness is really being able to bring your awareness to you and to your partnership. And it's really the most fun that I think human beings can have.
Katie Hendricks : Yeah. I think so. And I had two questions, it is a personal question and I believe that people can find inspiration from that. I'm an entrepreneur and I'm passionate about what I'm you doing in interviews and travels the world and the speeches in France, I love that and I work a lot. This has been…I play
David Laroche : It's not work. You play a lot and you're engaged.
Katie Hendricks : And it's perfect. It's working and I love to do that I have impact on more and more people in France and the World. Great but it's easy for me to manage my professional, it's not easy for me to manage my couple and my work at the same time. So somewhere you got an idea that you couldn't do both? That you'd have to do one or the other and it is a belief and you hold that belief in your body. And one of the ways that I think you hold that is that you get you're very quick, you're fast, you think quickly, you move quickly, you decide quickly but you get out ahead of yourself. So you actually get out ahead of your own body. So it can feel like when you get in your body that you've actually have slowed down and I would really encourage you to have at least a little bit of time every day where you actually let yourself move as fast as you are inside. So like for example that you let your hands move as fast as you actually move inside or at the pace that you actually move inside and when you do that there's a way that it ha, ha. It allows you to yeah boom right for that moment you get to be present to…
David Laroche : To express the energy inside…
Katie Hendricks : To express the energy inside, we call it matching so rather than having all of these going on inside but outside you're just nice and calm you know where you have this…when you let yourself match then it increases your sense of flow and connection. So when you're connected with you, you can connect with others. If you're not connected with you, you can't there's no place for you to connect with from others. There's nobody home. So you can have ideas about it but you won't actually have an experience of connecting. And one of the things I want to suggest to you is that. I like to use my hands to go, “I love my work and I love my relationship. I love my work and I love my relationship. “So I want to have a relationship and I want to have my work. I'm scared that if I have my work, I won't have my relationship that you let yourself play with because you have what we call an either or going. I can have my work or I can have my relationship. Well, I want my work but I can't have my relationship. So the to see what is it inside you like where did you
learn that you could only have one or the other.
David Laroche : From my parents.
Katie Hendricks : Yeah but you learn some specific things like you probably learned some specific things from your dad about the way to be and some specific things from your mom and you haven't questioned them but you're still acting them out in your body.
David Laroche : You said, sorry can you repeat please. I think…
Katie Hendricks : Yes. So those things that you learned have been like stored in files in your body and when you start exploring them it's what we call persona play. You start exploring the rules that you learned from your dad, the rules that you learned from your mother and we have a process we call the persona interview that's allows you to get acquainted with your personas. It's really fun and when you do that, it loosens…
David Laroche : You under question yourself?
Katie Hendricks : Yeah. No, you have somebody who questions you. I'll give you a couple of the questions so like let yourself take on the posture of a businessman so this because you hadn't done that before. So let your body lean forward a little bit more so you're on your elbow like lean your body for a little bit more, there. Yeah. And what would you if you were to give a name to this role what would you call this?
David Laroche : Flow.
Katie Hendricks : Flow? Okay. All right so I'm going to ask Flow I want you to stay in this posture I want you to just to complete just to answer the question with whatever comes to your mind. So Flow what's the most important thing to you?
David Laroche : As Flow right?
Katie Hendricks : Yes we're in this.
David Laroche : To achieve.
Katie Hendricks : Yes. And Flow what are you most proud of?
David Laroche : To achieve a lot. To do fast.
Katie Hendricks : Yeah, great. To do it first, yeah beautiful. And Flow, when did you make your first appearance?
David Laroche : In the one day when I was working with my father.
Katie Hendricks :Yeah, beautiful, And Flow who did you learn your style from?
David Laroche : I think from my dad and mother also. She is working hard.
Katie Hendricks : Yeah.
David Laroche : But yeah my father maybe more.
Katie Hendricks : And so notice that you're needing to notice something in you in order to answer that and that's part of what we're exploring. So Flow what are you most scared of?
David Laroche : The void to do nothing.
Katie Hendricks : Yeah. And Flow what do you most want?
David Laroche : I have some walls which have got game…
Katie Hendricks : You would say it in whatever language, just go ahead.
David Laroche : Yeah, It was to be present, to feel, to become.
Katie Hendricks : Yeah, beautiful. Now I want you to shake up that position. Oh yeah.
David Laroche : Yes.
Katie Hendricks : Yes. Now you have some more color. Your face is more open. You have some more your body you look like you're more relaxed in your body. Just from that little interview so the exploration of these roles. They kind of constrict your authenticity but they also keep safe. And they allow you to know to be in society and so this is about making friends with your personas so that you can take, you know I really like this aspect of what I learned from my dad but I think I'm going to let go of those and I really like this aspect of what I learned from my mom. I'm afraid to let go of these and you really start finding the difference between your authentic self and what we call essence and the things that you learnt. And that can be a lifelong process and it can also be really fun.
David Laroche : Yeah, awesome. And it's very feinted with these user side because he was Gill states who's my client and it's amazing. Thank you very much.
Katie Hendricks : And you're very welcome.
David Laroche : It was a very powerful to do that in English also…
Katie Hendricks : Yeah I was very pleased that you were able to do that and think and often when we're doing things like this with people from other countries we have them answer in their native language in there so. That's a whole other way to do it.
David Laroche : I understand a lot of them of speakers I wonder what's wrong in English so I have the vocabulary about this story that about emotion and…
Katie Hendricks : Yes and yes I hear you. You're very first language is embedded really down in yourselves and so I think it's valuable to honor that as well you know to really make deep changes.
David Laroche : Right. Thank you very much.
Katie Hendricks : You're very welcome.
David Laroche : How can the people kind of follow you and…
Katie Hendricks : Oh there are several different ways that people can get in touch with us. One is our website is www.hendricks.com. It's www.H-E-N-D-R-I-C-K-S.com. We also have a quite a well populated Facebook page, our Facebook page is facebook.com/relationshipadvise and we have three relationship tips that show up every day we have lots of videos, there are Lot of things that people can learn from that and we also have another website that's called the foundationforconsciousliving.com and that has videos that people can learn about authenticity, responsibility and appreciation. And how we can all change the world by using those three principles. That's really my passion right now is to populate the world with people who are living authentically and taking responsibilities for their lives and appreciating themselves and others.
David Laroche : I love that. I believe they are not in response within or so authenticism like I do my best to live like that.
Katie Hendricks : Wonderful.
David Laroche : Thank you very much.
Katie Hendricks : Thank you.